A weird use of 才，Please help!

[adamnhms]

Hello,

 

A few days ago, I said this sentence, 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚才把它们都关上。 without the 才 after 刚刚。  A native speaker corrected me, and she's good at helping me understand why I need certain characters sometimes and their uses, but this one she couldn't explain well.  I know 才's use with time, example, 九点才, as late as 9 o'clock or 那个服务员很客气，但是我们的菜要过一会儿才能上。  Both these sentences are clear.  When I look 才 up in my dictionary, I can find many words that justify 才's use in the sentence above, but I'm wondering if there's a definite structure for 才 besides time and express lateness.  Please help, this 才is driving me crazy.

 

FYI, I've already consulted http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/%E6%89%8D and other good websites.  No luck (as far as I've noticed)。  Additional sentence I'm a little confused about:我以为你说着玩儿的，你一年前才毕业！＜＜才 means only, right?

[ZoxGuo]

Eh, I'm a native Chinese speaker, not so pay attention to the gammar of Chinese, but actually, when we talk, we don't say “九点才" but “才九点”.

“我刚刚才把它们都关上”, it's both okay whatever there's 才 or not, but if you use 才, manner of speaking will be a kind of … eh harsh? (Even thought I don't use harsh is also a little harsh).

Eh, just as what I said, I'm not so pay attention to gammar, so I'll just talk about how we use it in the life.

If your mom want to you go to bed quickly, and you think it's just nine o'clock yet, or your boss want to you to do something, but you wouldn't like to do, “才九点” is the answer with that, it's kind of ask for more time to do your own things.

I'm not good at English, but I thought 才 equal to just now in 我以为你说着玩儿的，你一年前才毕业！ I have no idea how to translate it with only, but if with just, it should be“I thought you're kidding, you had just finish school for a year!"

http://wenku.baidu.com/link?url=2Ri0i-Lk-afds1DDB63TiEwYFl-QCCFfPWIVNes6ZFAWjh8l-Z1TS6xHt5QWiURXv5ThuIJC4IzvWui4HNIyFtyxIm-d9AtW7gdOwNWK1y7

I can't explain so clearly, maybe this web would be helpful :-)

[DavidL706]

I'm not sure of the exact grammatical reason, but I've usually heard 才 coming after time-related phrases when describing past actions, and less frequently heard it the other way around.  However when you're dealing with things that happen in the future, 才 often comes after the phrase.

 

他才剛剛吃晚飯. - He just ate dinner.

 

我明天才能跟你去 - I can only go with you tomorrow (but no earlier).

 

本政策要到下個星期才會正式生效 - This policy will come into effect next week.

[Johnchao222]

Hello 平 .

I am JohnChao, from China. I'm not a language teacher and learning english resently, but I'd like to help you to understand the uses of 才. I'm not certain about your chinese competence，so I'm going to explain in english and chinese.

1. 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚才把它们都关上。 no problem in this sentence. And for this one, 才 is like just， I just close all those windows opened by my mom early in the day.  Or your sentence can be like this： 我刚刚才把我妈白天打开的窗户都关上. both are right.

2我以为你说着玩的，你一年前才毕业！

Well for this one， there is a little bit problem. Okay I try to show you some sentences with english explanations：

A：我刚才以为你说着玩的，你还真是一年前才毕业！ I put 还真是 before 一年

Means several minutes ago（just now）I thought you said it for fun, but after hearing you out I find  you were telling your ture story.

我（刚才）以为……原来真是（还真是）

At first I dont buy it, but after witness or hearing I change my mind. 

 

B: 我就知道你说着玩的，还一年前才毕业！

Means I know you were kidding when you said you graduated a year ago!

Here  the using of 还and 才 help to express the speaker have already seen through the other's lies.

 

Okay, Indeed  才 can be used with many other chinese characters. For ex: 人才， talents，你是个人才，means you are a talented people；人才管理，means human resource management. 才 means Ability as noun.

才好，才刚， 才 used after subjects ，我才做完，这事才发生 means sb or sth just do or happen.  When 才 is used after temporal subject like 9点 才好，今天才出院，才 help to express and stress the time when sth happens

What's more 才 can also strenghthen the tone and language strength.

Wow, this is the first time I try to explain chinese to to a foreigner. feeling good.

Hope this helps.

[fanglu]

我以为你说着玩儿的，你一年前才毕业！

 

The 才 emphasises that it was only last year (the speaker thought it was longer ago).

@ZoxGuo - the translation is 'I thought you were joking. You only graduated last year!'

 

我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚才把它们都关上

 

The 才 emphasises that the windows were open a long time (or longer than they should be). It feels a bit like you're being critical of your mother for leaving them open. 

 

Edit: On reflection, maybe that's not quite right. In the window example, 才 emphasises the 'lateness' of your action in closing the windows. This 'lateness' could be because the windows were open for too long, or because you only just closed them now. 

[imron]

I am JohnChao, from China

Hi John, welcome to the forums.  As a new user please note that all your posts go in to a moderation queue and need to be approved by an admin member.  There's no need to make multiple posts saying the same thing and I've now removed all the duplicate posts.  Once you have made a number of regular posts, this restriction gets removed.

[Lu]

A few days ago, I said this sentence, 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚才把它们都关上。 without the 才 after 刚刚。 A native speaker corrected me, and she's good at helping me understand why I need certain characters sometimes and their uses, but this one she couldn't explain well.

I'm not a native speaker, but to me it seems you don't necessarily need 才 here. 我刚刚把它们都关上 seems correct to me, but very factual: my mom opened the windows, I closed them. With 才 added, the sentence becomes a bit more... emotional perhaps, more like: 'they were open for quite a long time, I only just closed them!'

ZoxGuo, JohnChao, as native speakers, do you think 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚把它们都关上。 (without 才) sounds wrong?

[ZoxGuo]

No, there's nothing wrong with that.

I thought no matter there’s 才 or not are correct, but in gammar? I'm not sure.

[ZhangJiang]

I gave the question some thought and found a possible explanation. Hope it's satisfactory

 

A more natural way to say "My mother opened all the windows earlier today and I closed them just now." would be 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚把它们都关上了。Here the "了” indicates the completion of the action, corresponding to the "ed" part of "closed". In this context, the result that the windows are closed seems to be the focus of the information. However, when you say "我刚刚把它们都关上“, the sentence leaves out the aspectual part of the verb, which sounds intentional to a native speaker (at least to me), meaning you don't want to emphasize the verb or the completion of the action. In this case, the most possible focus of the information goes to 刚刚 when there is no other special stress to mark emphasis elsewhere. So your friend suggested using "才” after “刚刚” to mark the emphasis: I didn't close them until just now. Actually you can stress the word "刚刚" to achieve similar effect without using "才".

 

The problem is do we have to have some sort of information focus in any sentences we say? I don't know. But the one 我刚刚把它们都关上 without special intonation seems focusless and not really a colloquial choice. In fact it feels more like a literary expression.

 

By the way I'm new to this forum too

[adamnhms]

I gave the question some thought and found a possible explanation. Hope it's satisfactory 

 

A more natural way to say "My mother opened all the windows earlier today and I closed them just now." would be 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚把它们都关上了。Here the "了” indicates the completion of the action, corresponding to the "ed" part of "closed". In this context, the result that the windows are closed seems to be the focus of the information. However, when you say "我刚刚把它们都关上“, the sentence leaves out the aspectual part of the verb, which sounds intentional to a native speaker (at least to me), meaning you don't want to emphasize the verb or the completion of the action. In this case, the most possible focus of the information goes to 刚刚 when there is no other special stress to mark emphasis elsewhere. So your friend suggested using "才” after “刚刚” to mark the emphasis: I didn't close them until just now. Actually you can stress the word "刚刚" to achieve similar effect without using "才".

 

The problem is do we have to have some sort of information focus in any sentences we say? I don't know. But the one 我刚刚把它们都关上 without special intonation seems focusless and not really a colloquial choice. In fact it feels more like a literary expression.

 

By the way I'm new to this forum too 

 

Thank you!  This makes so much sense!  Welcome to the forums! 

 

 

Eh, I'm a native Chinese speaker, not so pay attention to the gammar of Chinese, but actually, when we talk, we don't say “九点才" but “才九点”.

“我刚刚才把它们都关上”, it's both okay whatever there's 才 or not, but if you use 才, manner of speaking will be a kind of … eh harsh? (Even thought I don't use harsh is also a little harsh).

Eh, just as what I said, I'm not so pay attention to gammar, so I'll just talk about how we use it in the life.

If your mom want to you go to bed quickly, and you think it's just nine o'clock yet, or your boss want to you to do something, but you wouldn't like to do, “才九点” is the answer with that, it's kind of ask for more time to do your own things.

I'm not good at English, but I thought 才 equal to just now in 我以为你说着玩儿的，你一年前才毕业！ I have no idea how to translate it with only, but if with just, it should be“I thought you're kidding, you had just finish school for a year!"

http://wenku.baidu.c...9AtW7gdOwNWK1y7

I can't explain so clearly, maybe this web would be helpful :-) 

 

Thank you as well, the website is very helpful!

 

Hello 平 .

I am JohnChao, from China. I'm not a language teacher and learning english resently, but I'd like to help you to understand the uses of 才. I'm not certain about your chinese competence，so I'm going to explain in english and chinese.

1. 我妈白天把窗户都打开了，我刚刚才把它们都关上。 no problem in this sentence. And for this one, 才 is like just， I just close all those windows opened by my mom early in the day.  Or your sentence can be like this： 我刚刚才把我妈白天打开的窗户都关上. both are right.

2我以为你说着玩的，你一年前才毕业！

Well for this one， there is a little bit problem. Okay I try to show you some sentences with english explanations：

A：我刚才以为你说着玩的，你还真是一年前才毕业！ I put 还真是 before 一年

Means several minutes ago（just now）I thought you said it for fun, but after hearing you out I find  you were telling your ture story.

我（刚才）以为……原来真是（还真是）

At first I dont buy it, but after witness or hearing I change my mind. 

 

B: 我就知道你说着玩的，还一年前才毕业！

Means I know you were kidding when you said you graduated a year ago!

Here  the using of 还and 才 help to express the speaker have already seen through the other's lies.

 

Okay, Indeed  才 can be used with many other chinese characters. For ex: 人才， talents，你是个人才，means you are a talented people；人才管理，means human resource management. 才 means Ability as noun.

才好，才刚， 才 used after subjects ，我才做完，这事才发生 means sb or sth just do or happen.  When 才 is used after temporal subject like 9点 才好，今天才出院，才 help to express and stress the time when sth happens

What's more 才 can also strenghthen the tone and language strength.

Wow, this is the first time I try to explain chinese to to a foreigner. feeling good.

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

Thank you for your explanation on my first sentence.  My second sentence actually needs context, because it seems to be a little misleading.  Nonetheless, I appreciate your help.  Welcome to the forums! 

[Carl Chen]

Generally speaking, there are four types of usage for 才.

 

1. just (something just happened)

他五點才回來

 

2. a few; equals to the usage of 只

他才跑十公尺就累了

 

3. due to certain reason or purpose, the action works; (can be used with 只有, 必須, or 要

只有健康才是人生最大的財富

你必須多運動才會身體健康

你要多吃飯才會長高

 

4. confirm or emphasize the expression

我才不要理你呢!

我才是最聰明的!