跳进黄河也洗不清?

[Lu]

In my book, one character talking about another says:

像建军那样，小偷小摸、坑蒙拐骗的事做尽，可在关键问题上却不懂得如何保护自己，那叫傻，不叫奸。(...)建军跟瞎子差不多，爱逞能，生怕被别人瞧不起，交了那么多不三不四的朋友，不乏山上下来的亡命徒，到头来做了人家的替死鬼，跳进黄河也洗不清。

Does anyone know what 跳进黄河也洗不清 means? My initial thought was 'you can't wash it off even if you jump into the Yellow River', but the Yellow River is quite dirty and thus seems an odd choice if you'd want to wash something off. After some baidu'ing I found some hints that there is indeed a bit more going on, but I didn't really get what.

Thanks for any help!

[Goshujinchama]

well, this pretty much says it.

 

well. I guess you're right and there something more to it, the Yellow River sure is a poor choice for washing away something.

maybe what matters here is the result... the idea of washing something in muddy/torbid waters let us immediately know nothing good will come out of it.

imho, eh eh. ^_^"

[skylee]

This is a very common saying.

[Lu]

Thanks skylee, that's good to know. Do you ever feel that it's weird that it's the 黄河 of all rivers that is referenced in this saying, is it at all significant that the 黄河 is rather dirty? Or am I just 想太多ing.

[MPhillips]

It's called the Yellow River precisely because of all the silt, no?

[skylee]

想太多.

[aone]

Middle reaches of the Yellow River flows through the Loess Plateau, a large number of tributaries into the sediment, so the Yellow River sediment becomes the world's largest rivers. The maximum annual sediment amounted to 3.91 billion tons (1933), the maximum sediment concentration 920 kg / cubic meter (1977). Sanmenxia Reservoir annual average sediment is about 1.6 billion tons, with an average sediment 35 kg / cubic meter.

 

 

Because of the great silt, the Yellow River is more muddy - compared to other rivers in China, so, how can you get clean things if wash them in it?

跳进黄河也洗不清。Originally, should be 跳进黄河(action) - 洗不清(result)。This is a two-part allegorical saying, of which the first part, always stated, is descriptive, while the second part, sometimes unstated, carries the message. It means hard for someone to get rid of stakeholders or to avoid suspicion. This is  frequently used by someone who does nothing bad indeed but suspected.

[MPhillips]

Aone--It seems this chengyu has changed over time--maybe if you get a chance you could find examples for the original connotation.

[aone]

It is 歇（xie）后(hou)语(yu)

[MPhillips]

Yes--sorry!

[Lu]

Because of the great silt, the Yellow River is more muddy - compared to other rivers in China, so, how can you get clean things if wash them in it?

Yes, that's exactly my question. So why is the Yellow River referenced in this saying and not the 长江 or a generic 河/江/湖? The author, in her own translation, has simply left out 'Yellow' so she seems to agree with Skylee that it's simply a river here and its dirtyness not relevant.

[Pingfa]

Aone already gave the answer: 跳进黄河 is the action, 洗不清 is the result. Once you've jumped into the Yellow River, there's no washing it off.

 

From Baidu: 其实，这一俗语的“原生态”是一句歇后语：跳到黄河——洗不清。如此一说，想必大家胸中就豁然开朗了：因为黄河水本来就十分浑浊，所以跳进去是很难将身上的污垢冲洗干净的。

后来，不知从何时起，人们将此歇后语中“跳到黄河”与“洗不清”之间的停顿去掉，又妄加一“也”字，使其含义与原来的意思大相径庭。

 

It's just the 也 throwing you off. The meaning isn't 'you couldn't wash it off even if you jumped into the Yellow River', it's 'Once you've jumped into the Yellow River, you can't wash it off'

[Lu]

Ahh, I was reading it the wrong way around. Thanks so much Pingfa and thank you Aeon for explaining it even though it didn't get through to me. And this would mean that Iciba has it wrong (well, that wouldn't be the first time, it's great for sentences though).

I might translate it as something like 'once you've jumped into the Yellow River, you can never fully wash off the mud'.