Can anyone explain this sentence to me.

[Peter305]

Hi

 

I wrote this sentence to a friend, 虽然我没有老师，但是我自学的。 I was told that it was logically incorrect, I get it because its not contrasting. But then she suggested I could write 虽然我没有老师，但是我可以自学。 What's different about that phrase that makes it correct? 

 

Is it even correct? I mean what is the difference of writing 我自学的， and 我自学 , omitting the de?? 

 

If anyone can explain it to me I'll be both grateful and impressed. I've been racking my brain around this for hours!

 

thanks 

[imron]

It's not the addition or omission of 的 that makes it correct/incorrect, it is the addition/omission of 可以.

 

The first sentence says:

 

Even though I don't have a teacher, but I learn by myself - which logically sounds strange in English too.  The second sentence is then 'Even though I don't have a teacher, I can learn by myself', which is perfectly logical.

[Pedroski]

How about: 虽然我没有教师，我在自学。

[YuehanHao]

Maybe I can follow on with a question here too.

I can understand that the second sentence may be more logically structured, but does the meaning seem changed also? I would take the original intent as being, I do in actual fact self study, versus merely having the potential to do so. I think of that as an important distinction, but maybe it is not so much so in Chinese?

I am not qualified to make suggestions, but my naive advice here would have been to drop the 虽然 ... 但是 structure, and say something like 我没有老师，可是我自学。 Just curious if this also seems awkward or illogical along the lines of the original.

(Just for fun, I have to admit that I speak in English not too much differently than the original sentence, e.g., I could say something like, "Although I don't attend formal classes, I do [in fact] study on my own." The second phrase does partially negate the expectation created by the first, and as such I can partway sympathize with the original sentence in Chinese.)

Thanks for any feedback.

[imron]

I speak in English not too much differently than the original sentence

I think it's the 'but' that is the problem.  Insert a 'but' in to your English sentence and it also sounds a bit strange.

 

I agree that dropping the 虽然 ... 但是 is probably a better way to express the original concept.

[aone]

Why not use 无师自通?

[Peter305]

I understand now, thanks for the explanation imron. Yeah, it comes from the fact- as yuehanyao says- that the way I speak in English is often logically incorrect. How about the 的 in general?

 

What is the difference from saying 我自学， and 我自学的 - what difference does that actually make to the sentence? 

[loganmurphy]

It is a little complicated to explain, but here goes:

Adding ＂的＂after the verb makes it sound more like you've already been doing that for some time,

Example:

Someone asks you how you learn Chinese:

You can say...

我跟老師學的。

Or

我自學的。

It's understood that you've been studying Chinese for some time.

But if you say...

我跟老師學。

Or

我自學。

Its more like you have just begun, or are in the process of studying.

Really though, it depends on the situation.

Hope this helps and let me know if you need me to clarify or further explain anything.