Cicada translation

[Nikolaos]

Hello to everyone,

 

 

I am not a chinese learner, so I would be grateful if I had some help with a matter of mine...

 

I was interested in the chinese word for "cicada".

On the internet I have found that 蝉 is what I was looking for.

 

What I need to know here, is what the second part of the word means.

Does is still mean cicada or something else? 

 

 

The text processors won't let me mark half of the word (why, really?), so I hope you understand

that i'm curious about the second bit of the word 蝉 and if I can still use it to signify "cicada".

 

 

Thank you in advance,

Nikos

 

 

[TheBigZaboon]

The pronunciation for this "word" (usually referred to around here as a Chinese character) cicada, is chan2. To express the idea of cicada, you must have the two parts present in the same relationship and position in the one character. The character itself, as you have correctly gleaned, is made up of two parts. The parts of a character are there for any number of reasons, including but not limited to sound or meaning. But I'm afraid the rules don't allow you to separate them at will. 

 

The second part loosely means single, sole , simple, etc., by itself, and in combination with any number of partial or stand alone characters. But it cannot be used to express cicada, because by itself, it has nothing to do with cicadas. Sorry, I didn't make the rules.

 

My wife loves cicadas. She has cicada apps on her iPhone that allow her to identify any of the myriad numbers of cicadas we run into, even to the extent of having recordings of the distinct sounds made by any one type of cicada. Cicadas are also one of the rarer forms used to make Chinese jade pendants. I have spent many an hour trolling through sidewalk stalls and jewelry stores in China to find her one she doesn't have in her collection. In Taiwan a few months ago, we even managed to find ocarinas made in the shape of cicadas. My wife was ecstatic. Sorry, I got carried away. 

[skylee]

The word you found means cicada. It is the simplified form. The traditional form is 蟬. I don't see what you meant by "the second bit". You quoted only one single word, i.e. "蝉" (or its traditional form "蟬"). This word is made up of the left part "虫" (meaning insect) and the right part "單" (meaning single, among other meanings). There is not a "second" part/bit.

[MPhillips]

@TheBigZaboon--it would appear your wife has never slept in a room which has a large tree filled with an untold number of cicadas next to the window!!! ;-) P.S. [warning-bad pun alert] It's enough to drive a person semi-insane!

[Demonic_Duck]

Riffing off what TBZ and skylee have already explained, another example:

 

The Chinese character for “good” is “好” (pronunciation “hǎo”). You can't use either side of the character on its own to mean “good”, because on their own they don't mean that. The left side, “女” (“nǚ”), means “female”, and the right side, “子” (“zǐ”), means “child/son” (or a load of other meanings). But, if you put the two of those together, you get “女子” (“nǚzǐ”), which means “woman”. In other words, it matters how much space a component takes up. Characters should occupy the space of a square - hence if you see two components occupying the same square, you know they are both parts of a single character, and can't be split.

 

Also, back to cicadas, I think the colloquial term is “知了” (“zhīliǎo”), whereas “蝉” has a slightly more literary feel. Or is “知了” dialectical?

[anonymoose]

What does the second part of the letter "d" mean? That is the "l" part on the right hand side and not the "c" part on the left. The text processors won't let me mark half of the letter (why, really?), so I hope you understand this analogy.

[TheBigZaboon]

@The Duck,

 

I've generally found that zhi1liao3 is used to refer to the bug itself, whereas when I'm trying to buy a piece of jade, the term chan2 is more appropriate.

Try going into a jewelry store and ask "Do you have zhi1liao3?" The reaction you get is about the same as if you'd asked if they have cockroaches.

Jade pendants in the shape of a cicada are not as common as those in the shape of dragons, etc., but there are some nice little pieces, some WAY out of our price range, floating around.

[TheBigZaboon]

@MPhillips,

 

That's kind of an inside joke, but my wife is in on it, and she chuckled. She's also pleased to have become a part of the discussion.

[MPhillips]

I'm glad! I noticed you're in Tokyo--Urayamashii !!!

[skylee]

Jade cicadas remind me of 明器. I don't find them appealing at all.

[TheBigZaboon]

skylee, I agree with you, but probably for different reasons. I know nothing of Chinese funereal practices, except for burning paper money and paper imitations of goods for use in the next life, so I had to use Pleco to look up the term you used. For me the problem is simply that bugs is bugs. They give me the creeps.

 

However, my wife likes them because their song reminds her of hot summers growing up in a culture where children are not raised to fear or shun insects, in a country where there are many giant and exotic species of bugs that don't bite or sting as dangerously as those in other climes. I have to say that her interest in them pointed out to me how much I  took them for granted, because I grew up away from the city where their presence was often a constant in summers where their 13-year and 17-year life-cycles brought them up out of the ground. But where I come from, nobody ever paid any attention.

 

The jade versions also seem to be an acquired taste, as you point out. Some are artistically pleasing, and some are amazingly anatomically correct, especially in terms of the reproduction of the details of the underbelly. However, in our case you have to take the term "jade" with a big dose of salt. We wouldn't know real jade if someone hit us over the head with it. Some pieces we've looked at came with a certificate of authenticity, but we never put much stock in that. Our rule of thumb is, "are we willing to pay the price we can haggle down to simply for the object in front of us, regardless of any claims to authenticity, etc.?" It has meant we have passed up many things my wife wanted, simply because the price was out of our range, jade or not. In one case, however, we went a little over the budget because the serial number on the certificate of authenticity was the same as the numerical address of our apartment back home. And the piece was one of the nicer ones we had found.

 

Also, I don't think it would be very nice of me to keep saying "Yuck" or "grossimundo" every time something like this catches her eye. So I soldier on, trolling through assorted dragons and turtles, and walking down alleys and side streets to find a shop she heard of "once in a lullaby."

When I do find some piece or some place that makes her happy I can feel my duty is done. To watch my wife and a Taiwanese shop keeper tootling away together on matching ocarinas shaped like cicadas, as if neither one had any other cares in the world, is certainly worth the trouble and the "yuck" factor. 

[MPhillips]

I figured that Japanese people must love the sound they make since it can often be heard in the background of tv show soundtracks when the action is set in the summer.

[TheBigZaboon]

@MPhillips

I think you're certainly right about that. I can recall any number of tv programs, commercials, or even movies, where simply the sound of the cicada in the background was enough to invoke the idea of a scorching summer day.

 

By the way, I wonder what happened to the original poster while you, me, skylee, the Duck, and anonymoose have been enjoying ourselves on his dime.

[oceancalligraphy]

@MPhillips

I think you're certainly right about that. I can recall any number of tv programs, commercials, or even movies, where simply the sound of the cicada in the background was enough to invoke the idea of a scorching summer day.

 

This reminds me of a time I was watching a Taiwanese drama and I could barely hear the actors because of the overpowering cicada sounds in the background - probably not what was intended.

[Nikolaos]

I really thank you for your replys.

 

They've been a great help!

[skylee]

Super cicada (recorded in Tokyo today).

Super Cicada.mp3

[TheBigZaboon]

skylee, thank you very much. My wife was delighted.

 

She says that in Japanese, they describe this as 蝉時雨　(せみしぐれ) semishigure, a (rain) shower of semi (voices), a cacophony of semi (voices).

 

 http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/せみしぐれ

 

(If you look up this word using Google in English, you will find mostly references to a samurai costume drama from 2005, or references to a rock band with the same name.)

[TheBigZaboon]

By the way, it was too late when I saw your post last night, but I will look for you around the city today. Just in case you haven't returned to Hong Kong yet.

 

I will look for people recording cicadas in the parks and under trees. But I don't know how I would recognize you otherwise.

 

In any case, we both hope you enjoy the remainder of your trip to Tokyo.

[skylee]

Thanks. I am in Tokyo, and will be around Kagurazaka and the Mori Art Museum.