Urgent heads up to people living in Harbin

[MoTzu]

Heads up people, police are arresting foreigners on the spot who don't have their passport (original) on them at all times. A teacher from our school was arrested for doing their shopping without their passport. You also must carry your expert certificate on you at all times if you are here working, if they do a passport check and you're on a z visa you must provide your expert certificate on the spot or you will also be arrested. There's also a rumour a teacher from another school is in the process of being deported because starting this week the cops are doing checks of all english schools to make sure the teachers are here on the correct Z visas. If you're here teaching on an L visa, or doing border runs every 30 days to stay here on a tourist visa prepare to be deported.

 

The first part is definite because it happened to a teacher from my school today who was grocery shopping without their passport on them. The second part I was told by a foreigner at a restaurant tonight who said the cops showed up at his school demanding to see everyones visas and expert certificates, one teacher was on an L visa with no expert certificate and is now in the process of being deported I was told

[MoTzu]

Yeah just got an sms from my boss advising us that the cops will be doing checks of all English schools in Harbin starting tomorrow and running until they've got rid of all the teachers on incorrect visas. They're also going to be doing spot checks of foreigners walking in the street. If you can't provide your passport and either student or expert paperwork on the spot you will be arrested.

[Kanjiology]

I live in Tianjin but that's pretty harsh. I never take my passport with me unless I am going to go on a train, stay at a hotel, etc, I'm sure that's the majority of the case for most foreigners here. I live inside the university campus so most police officers understand that it's just students here. Students don't have anything like a foreign experts certificate besides a Student ID 学生证, and I never use that thing unless I want to get a discount or something. 

[Zander]

That's crazy harsh, I never carry my passport with me unless I am taking a train or leaving the country - Why would I? It's really risky

[MoTzu]

Technically as a foreigner in China you are supposed to carry your passport on you at all times regardless of visa type, they just rarely enforce it. They do occasional "blitzes" like this in every city from time to time. Usually it's triggered by something like finding a teacher working on the wrong visa, or last time they did this in Shanghai it was because they found teachers working with fake uni degrees to get their Z visa

[Kanjiology]

Seems things have gotten a lot stricter with a few troublemakers ruining it for the rest of us. Just today I saw an article about Chinese police coming into bars in Beijing randomly and doing urine tests on everyone to check for drug use. http://www.theworldofchinese.com/2014/08/partying-in-beijing-will-include-drug-test-by-police/ If the trend in Harbin carries on over to Tianjin or other cities, I'll start taking my passport with me more often. 

[kdavid]

As someone above mentioned, this is likely just the result of some internal administrative campaign. I wouldn't expect it to last long.

 

There's certainly a conflict of interest here, as most western-government embassies advise their citizens NOT to carry their passports everywhere for safety reasons, while the Chinese government "requires" it.

 

As for your FEC's, those are usually held by your school and are not distributed to teachers. This is because the FEC is the responsibility of the school, and if it's lost the school can get fined.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't worry too much about visits to your school as long as you're on the correct visa. In many cases, local block cops will enter a school not knowing who owns it. Local Chinese staff knows to contact the boss, who almost always has a government connection. Once the boss gets hold of his government partner, a call is made to the visiting officers, who then promptly leave without further incident.

[Johnny20270]

That's very draconian. Lose your passport and its a real pain in the posterior especially if you have a useless embassy like mine (Irish) who don't provide any help whatsoever and never bother answering the phone (as I had the experience of). 

 

I would have thought at least a ID card or something would be a better solution

[MoTzu]

To be honest I'm surprised by all the "it's harsh/draconian/unfair" comments.

This is China people, and you're a foreigner in their country. Do you honestly think they give a shit if they're being fair?

 

As Kdavid said, it would have been set off by something, my guess is they caught a teacher on an L visa or something similar. They'll sweep the schools till they're sure all the illegals are gone then life will go back to how it was. Also if you're employed legally you have nothing to worry about, the boss/owner of your school will have government connections, if he doesn't then chances are you've been employed illegally. In the case of my school our boss is actually IN the government so the cops will come in, politely ask for our visas and expert certificates and leave. HOWEVER it's worth noting that in the street the cops won't be scared of who your boss is and will not be so polite. If they stop you in the street for the next for days/weeks and you don't have your passport on you, you will be arrested

[kdavid]

A suggestion for anyone who really doesn't want to carry around their actual passport: carry around a copy of the biodata page AND the page with your resident permit. You can also ask the Chinese staff at your school to write on the paper "for more information please call...."

[MoTzu]

For the record I've had 2 text messages and 1 phone call so far today from different bosses at our schools telling me a photocopy will not be accepted during this sweep and until it's over they couldn't stress enough how important it was that I have my original passport on me everytime I step out of my apartment. As for writing "for more information please call...", that most definitely works most of the time, how ever I was told during this sweep they will not be making such phone calls on the spot. You will be able to call your school for help but you will be arrested and taken to the station and have to call your school from there. Something serious must have kicked this off because they're being extremely strict about it. My boss stressed over and over again I can not underestimate how important this is. Keep in mind our boss is IN the local government so this info is coming straight from them. I'm not sure how it affects students, it may possibly be completely different, I can only speak about the working/resident visa holders.

 

I'm really surprised you guys don't carry your passports on you. I've spent a bit of time in a number of asian countries and my passport very rarely ever leaves my person. The police can stop you in most asian countries for an on the spot passport check and results for not having it ranges from they can't be bothered doing anything about it, they give you a stern talking to about carrying it, or if the cop feels like scaring a westerner they can arrest you. The chances of it happening are extremely slim, but the reality is as a foreigner you are required to carry your passport on you at all times. And don't think this is just an unfair China thing, in Australia where I'm from you are legally obligated to carry either a drivers licence or a government issued ID card on you at all times. Even back home I've more than once been put in the back of a car and taken to the station while I had to call someone to bring my ID down just for walking around the streets with no ID on me. Since we don't have ID cards here we're required to carry our passports, I don't see it as being any more draconian or unfair than what's expected of us back home.

[Silent]

 

There's certainly a conflict of interest here, as most western-government embassies advise their citizens NOT to carry their passports everywhere for safety reasons, while the Chinese government "requires" it.

True, but many of the countries that do so require a valid ID at home too. For foreigners that valid ID is the travel document. China is not strange in this respect. To be honest I can't imagine you'll be deported for not having your passport on you. They may take you and then probably will give you an opportunity to fetch the passport.  If everything is Ok you may get a fine for not having a valid ID on you and that's probably it. Of course a lot of time consuming hassle, but nothing too serious.

 

Personally I doubt the wisdom of the advise not to carry your passport and usually try to avoid leaving my passport at the hotel. If you really live in China with your own home it may be different, but in general I feel much safer with the passport on me then leaving it at the hotel. But maybe that says more about the dodgy hotels I tend to stay and my imagination about what can go wrong when I leave my passport. Think blackmail to pay extravagant bills in exchange for returning the passport (happened to me once), identity theft, or just delays due no-one being available to return it on check-out (happened many times to me).

 

If you put the passport in an inside pocket the risk of loosing it are virtually nill that is as long as you keep your clothes on. The copy of the personal data and visa pages in my wallet used to be enough. In recent years however hotels and officials often  want the original, but another official photo ID like drivers license may still be ok.

[MoTzu]

Exactly what silent has said, most western countries require you to carry identification on you at all times, this is not strange at all for China to expect it. The only thing that's changed here is how strictly they will be enforcing it for a few weeks. Also as he has mentioned you're not going to be deported for not having it, but you will be arrested and have to spend a substantial amount of time in a chinese police station while your school/employer sorts it out for you

[imron]

in Australia where I'm from you are legally obligated to carry either a drivers licence or a government issued ID card on you at all times

Just to clarify, although I'm not familiar with the details of your situation, and don't know what state you are from, this is not generally true.   If you are operating a motor vehicle you are required to carry your licence and show it upon request.  Likewise if you are suspected of committing a crime or offence police may request identification and detain you until you can verify that.

 

Rules also vary state by state.  See here for a reasonably good breakdown (you can change states in the dropdown as required), but as far as I'm aware there is no nationwide law requiring you to carry ID on you at all times (would definitely be interested in knowing if you can show otherwise).

 

Back on topic, in my six years in China, I rarely carried my passport on my person (but always had a photocopy in my wallet).  For crackdowns like the one you mentioned is going on now, it's probably a good idea to do so though.

[Demonic_Duck]

The fact that "most western countries" (is it most?) also have draconian regulations isn't an argument for China's regulations not being draconian.

[imron]

it would have been set off by something, my guess is they caught a teacher on an L visa or something similar

I doubt it was something as minor as this.  It's more likely that somewhere some foreigner has pissed off someone in power and this is the reaction that.  See for example the visa crackdown in Beijing a few years back after that foreigner was suspected of sexually assaulting someone and a video of his subsequent beating went viral.

[roddy]

Split off posts not relevant to China here. Please do remember that we try and keep things focused, and new topics are free. 

 

While it sounds like a photocopy won't be enough, it would be worth considering if you don't want to carry your id around with you - it might speed things up considerably. Also worth putting your passport and other documents somewhere easy to find in your room in case you need to have someone deliver them to the station. 

[renzhe]

I was going to suggest the "photocopy" route, which has served me well for decades in various countries, but it seems like a photocopy is not accepted in this particular case.

I'd either go with a photocopy of all relevant pages (visa, contract, etc.) and having a passport in an accessible place where a friend can bring it, or buying one of those hidden wallets that attach to your underwear and carrying the passport there until the raids stop.

Personally, I'd rather get arrested than have to get a new passport and all the relevant visas after the old one gets stolen. In my experience,you are much more likely to have your passport stolen than being arrested for not having one. And it's more hassle.

[Basil]

The problem with carrying a passport on you all the time, assuming you never lose it, is it becomes sweaty and tatty very quickly. 

 

I abided by the regulations when I lived in Beijing. My reward? Being told that I needed to buy a new passport before they would even think about granting a new visa... 

[ouyangjun]

I live in China and rarely carry my passport... normally don't even have any form of ID.  I keep my Chinese driver license in my car because it doesn't fit into the wallet properly, and I don't bring my US driver license because I'm afraid I will lose it and don't want to go through the pain of getting a new one.  It would probably be smart to photocopy my passport just to put in my wallet in case of emergency.

 

I figure if I ever get picked up and checked I can either talk my way out of it, and if I can't talk my way out of it then it will make for a good story.  I don't think they actually arrest anyone for this.  I would guess they take you to the 派出所 and give you the opportunity to retrieve your passport (at least that's what I'm hoping).