这‘之’的意思

[Pedroski]

但是老年人有着年轻人无法与之相比的优势，那就是他们的积累的经验、知识、智慧、才能，而且开发老龄人才资源主要是使用他们的智慧和才能，而非体力。

 

 

但是..老年人......有着.......年轻人.........无法...与...之...相比的....优势

But old people have young people unable with it compare superiority  这里的‘之' = ’it '或者 = ‘的’ 吗？？或者都可以吗？？

[Michaelyus]

The former: "it".

Actually 与之相比 feels like a collocation, almost 成语-like. In ctext.org, I currently see a citation for this phrase from the Song dynasty, from a gloss of Mencius IV.3 by 趙岐.

[Pedroski]

你不认为‘之’ 等于代词’it‘吗？

 

对不起，读者你给我的链接，看不到你写的‘the former'. 太笨的。

 

也许‘无法与之相比’ = incomparable

[skylee]

Unparalleled

之 here means 老年人. It is a pronoun, referring to them (the elderly).

[Pedroski]

感谢！

 

你如何知道‘之’指到‘老年人’不是指到‘优势’的？

[Hofmann]

Context. Taking that clause alone, 年輕人 would not compare to themselves. Plus 之 isn't even necessary here.

[Pedroski]

但是老年人有着年轻人无法与之相比的优势，

 

但是老年人具有的优势，年轻人无法与之相比，

 

我看不到你提的背景。

[skylee]

甚麽背景？

You could simplify the sentence to 但是老年人有着年輕人無法相比的優勢.

[陳德聰]

Break down your sentences first and look at the phrasing. Stop just spacing out the words and trying to guess the syntax or you'll continue to misunderstand.

 

但是老年人有着年轻人无法与之相比的优势

但是A有着B

A = 老年人

B = [attributive clause的]优势

attributive clause = 年轻人无法与之相比(的)

X无法与Y相比

X = 年轻人
Y = (hint: there's only one noun left to choose from)

This is what I suspect Hofmann meant when saying that 年轻人 can compare to themselves, since within the attributive clause it's a decision between which prior noun will be the antecedent for the pronoun 之, and I imagine it not only makes logical sense that it would be not the youngin's, but also grammatically I feel like that 之 has to reach outside its immediate phrase.

[ZhangJiang]

At first I think ‘之’ means '老年人‘ here, but the more I read it and think about the possibility that it could refer to ’优势‘, the more it seems that ’之' can mean both!

[Su Haifeng]

之  can be used as a pronoun which refers to the person or thing appears before . It appears a lot  in classic Chinese, and are not so often used in modern Chinese. 

但是..老年人......有着.......年轻人.........无法...与...之...相比的....优势

the 之 here refers to "老年人", and it is not "优势"。 The sentence would be "无法与优势（之）相比的优势" If 之 meant 优势。 It makes no sense. 

 

Hope this could be of some help.

[Pedroski]

I feel like that 之 has to reach outside its immediate phrase.

 

 

 

但是A有着B与之相比的C

 

 

语言不完美。有可能性这句话含糊不清的。随我看法，从两个可能性我们无法知道哪个对的。没有词素结构的道理告诉我们‘之’指着哪一方向。

[skylee]

I suppose one should use English as far as possible on these forums except the Chinese Corner.

[ZhangJiang]

This question is actually quite intriguing. I can imagine it appears in the Gaokao with the "right" answer 之 means 优势 so most students get it wrong then the purpose of the test if fullfilled i.e. to differentiate the participants. I think generally 之 doesn't refer to 我 so in the sentence "我有着别人无法与之相比的优势" , it's more possible that 之 refers to 优势(which can justify the "right" answer!).

[陳德聰]

Pedroski when I say phrase, I am talking about "noun phrase", "verb phrase" etc. as basic units in a syntax tree as this seems to be the most relevant way to discuss pronouns.

From your new example it isn't even clear what point you're trying to make. Let me reiterate:

 

Sentence

Subject + Predicate
[老年人] + [有着...优势]

 

Predicate

Verb + Object
[有着] + [年轻人无法与之相比的优势]

Object
Attributive Clause(?) + Noun
[年轻人无法与之相比的] + [优势]

Attributive Clause(?)
Subject + Predicate + 的
[年轻人] + [无法与之相比] + 的

I don't think it's really necessary to "zoom in" any further than that really... Because now it is exactly the same thing as saying "John has the advantage of Bill not being as fast as him."

[Pedroski]

I'm not a fan of phrasal grammar. None of the terms you use have solid definitions. I have a paper somewhere from 梅祖麟 from 1961 in which he said subject predicate distinction paralleled the particular universal distinction in logic. He said it was a reflex of an Indo-European bias, and could not be valid, as "Chinese does not admit a distinction into subject and predicate"

 

Attributive Clause(?) + Noun
[年轻人无法与之相比的] + [优势]

 

Your 'Attributive Clause' contains '无法‘ which one may translate as 'cannot' and ’相比‘ which one may translate as 'compare' or 'comparison' 。 Why don't you call it a verb phrase, a noun phrase, a prepositional phrase or a predicate?

 

This is not the place to discuss these things, but, simply put, if you give me a 'definition' of 'subject', or any of the other terms you use, I will find a sentence where your 'definition' does not apply.

[MPhillips]

I've also seen Mr. Mei's argument used to denigrate Chinese philosophy. (a long, long time ago--don't ask me where)

[skylee]

I wish the OP very good luck. I will from now on avoid his threads.

[MPhillips]

I spent nearly 9 years studying Chinese, 6 in the US & just short of 3 in China and we were never taught any formal grammar (except for a little in classes on classical Chinese). In hindsight, it seems we must have been living in the dark ages!

[Pedroski]

My problem with 'grammar' is that nothing is rigorously defined. Words refuse to stay in their word classes. Then this Western mish-mash is arrogantly applied to Chinese as if it were God's own answer to questions of language. In science, things have to be clearly defined. In Chinese, when a word is a verb or a noun often depends on  how you wish to interpret it.