Outlier Linguistic Solutions

[OneEye]

Good question! They're sort of a vague indicator of semantic distance. If the semantic component's meaning is very close to the character's meaning, we'll use "indicate." A bit further, and we'll say "points to." If it's a looser connection, we'll say "hints at." There's some subjectivity to it, of course, but we wanted to break up the monotony somewhat, without doing it in a random way.

[Guest realmayo]

Thanks. To clarify this concept of semantic distance, you are not saying that you have less confidence (with a "hint", say) that a component is a semantic component, right?

 

But rather that, whereas it's hard to imagine a semantic component in 她 not being a component that means 'woman', in 作 the 亻 (for 'people') could quite easily have had a different semantic component (e.g. a 扌) or indeed none at all?

[OneEye]

Well, anything could have had different components, and often did. Components with compatible meanings were swapped out all the time, especially in Warring States script. 亻 could be swapped for 女卩身尸大 etc., as all have to do with people. 糸巾帛布幺 etc. often got swapped for each other too, as they all have to do with textiles. We ended up with the characters we have in the modern script due in some ways to historical coincidence.

 

So we're not indicating uncertainty or a lower level of confidence, or that something could have been something else. We're simply indicating how close the semantic relationship is between the character's meaning and that of its semantic component.

[OneEye]

We just released a big update to the dictionary yesterday! 

 

This update adds about 380 new characters, plus 60+ new Expert entries, bringing the total to over 3000 characters with 250 Expert entries.

 

If you have the dictionary, you should get the update automatically, or you can go to Pleco's Menu > Add-ons > Updated. If you don't have the dictionary yet, you can get it here: https://www.outlier-linguistics.com/products/outlier-dictionary-of-chinese-characters

 

Here's the list of new Expert entries for those interested:

 

Simplified: 一老适丂者包万合三上下而戎尔气帚鸟生大然户夺爻所升乌歌青何教孝非你学火灬山年智窃云五斗林犬辶麻於今燕受这飞?知哥雨自可

Traditional: 一老丂者包合三上下而戎气這帚生氣大萬戶然爻爾所升歌青何教孝非號你適奪火灬山年學智云五斗林犬辶麻於麼今竊烏燕受飛?鳥知哥雨自可雲出

 

There's some really interesting stuff in there. Here's a screenshot of the Expert entry for 智:

 

[OneEye]

Quick heads up: our Black Friday sale is going all weekend—40% off anything in the store (dictionary, courses, and posters, for both Chinese and Japanese) with the discount code 'BFCM2021'. We're also in the process of re-filming the courses and adding a bunch of material to them, so we'll likely raise prices on the courses sometime next year, making the current price probably the lowest price they'll be available for again.

 

Edited to add: of course any new material will be included no matter when you purchase the course!

[Tomsima]

I was sitting there looking at 疑窦, trying to figure out what the 穴 in 窦 was trying to tell me, before I noticed that the remainder was the d-u sound from 读 and 牍. Unfortunately the Outlier entry only sent me deeper - why does a character pronounced in Modern Mandarin as mài lead to shu/xu/du/dou pronounciations? And why does 賣 get used to represent these, yet 買 seems to stay out of the action as a sound component? Was wondering if any research had been done on this?

[Publius]

@Tomsima

I have a theory: it's due to confusion between 賣 and ?.

賣 (說文作?。从出从買) apparently got its sound from 買.

? (从貝?聲。?，古文睦。讀若育。) also means 'to sell' but is pronounced yù < juk. (I suspect it's the same word as 鬻 and 儥.) If you look at 說文, these characters with a *uk sound all have a 先+買-lookalike as their phonetic component, not 出+買. For 贖 the text even reads 从貝?聲.

But this distinction obviously disappeared over time, just like the 月/肉 distinction.

 

EDIT: I don't know why but some characters won't display on my phone

[OneEye]

There are actually two characters/components that resemble 賣 in modern Chinese: ? yù and 賣 mài. They have different origins but have largely converged in the modern script (that is, though I've typed them using different code points here, in standard Chinese and in most fonts, ? yù is written identically to 賣 mài when it appears as a component). ? yù is the sound component in those characters, not 賣 mài. The system data is generated by code and then checked by hand, but it looks like we missed this one. We'll get it fixed so that it's more clear in the next update. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

Here are early forms of each (賣 mài in 小篆, ? yù in 西周金文), along with a quick breakdown of their original components:

 

[Tomsima]

Very enlightening, thanks to both of you for your inputs, and for the bigger picture (I was squinting hard at those 说文 characters!)

[Calion]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:36 PM, OneEye said:

We just released a big update to the dictionary yesterday! 

I believe another update just dropped a few days ago. 

[OneEye]

Yes, it did! We added another 180 Essentials entries (total ~3350) and 80 Expert entries (total ~330).

 

We've also just launched a new course: Early China: History, Culture, and Archeology. It starts in February but it's open for registration now. Should be a really interesting one!

[benfl]

I noticed a few inconsistencies in the system level information, wanted to check if something is going wrong on my end. It seems like a lot of characters don't show up in the series that they're part of. For example, the entry for 澱 says that 殿 is a sound component, but looking at the sound series for 殿, the only entry is 臀 (I think that 澱 also might not appear in the semantic series for 氵, but the list was too long to confirm). Some other ones I've noticed are:

• 滷 doesn't appear in the system level info for 鹵
• 奠 doesn't appear in the system level info for 酋 or 大
• 豁 doesn't appear in the system level info for 谷
• 尷 doesn't appear in the system level info for 監
• 尬 doesn't appear in the system level info for 介
• 瓷 doesn't appear in the system level info for 瓦
• 啄 doesn't appear in the system level info for 豖
• 柴 doesn't appear in the system level info for 此
• 惹 doesn't appear in the system level info for 若
• 舵 doesn't appear in the system level info for 舟 or 它
• 趁 doesn't appear in the system level info for 走 or 㐱
• 衍 doesn't appear in the system level info for 行
• 焰 doesn't appear in the system level info for 臽

Not sure if I'm missing an update or something, or if the information is really not there in the dictionary.

 

By the way, I love the system-level info feature (which is why I've used it enough to notice the things that are off). It really helps me organize the characters into meaningful clusters that are much easier to understand and remember. I really appreciate the work you've put into this!

[mouse]

Can confirm most of this, except I don't have 酋、㐱、臽、豖 as an Outlier entries, so they can't have system level info. Oh and 瓷 appears in the radical list for 瓦.

[OneEye]

Thanks for pointing that out! It looks like we didn't fully update the system data with the last release. We'll get that fixed in the next one. Glad you like the system data—we're big fans of it too!

[OneEye]

Two big updates to the dictionary in the past 6 weeks or so:

 

v1.9 added around 500 new Essentials entries and about 75 new Expert entries.

 

v1.10 added another ~270 Essentials entries, bringing the total to over 4000 characters. This was our final goal for number of entries covered. We'll still continue to add new characters, but they'll mostly be semantic and phonetic components that don't have entries yet, unless any glaring omissions are found.

 

But we're pretty happy to say our dictionary now covers all the characters you need to know in order to become fully literate in Chinese, including all of the characters for the HSK and (I think, but still need to confirm) TOCFL tests.

 

In other news, we put together some really cool courses this year, all of which are now available to do self-paced:

 

Get Speaking Mandarin: Learn all of the basic grammar and most common several hundred words of Mandarin, and drill it until you can use it with confidence in normal conversations with native speakers. The course starts from zero assuming no prior knowledge; however, the vast majority of people who have taken it are beginners who 1) struggle to understand native speech in real life contexts, or 2) struggle to string sentences together in real time conversations. We've seen massive improvements from people, both self-reported and observed/reported by Ash (my co-founder), who's teaching the course. One student said the course has "progressive, consistent, and well-thought-out materials that have dramatically accelerated my progress. My language exchange partners here have been amazed at my progress over the past 3 months, and really appreciate that my sounds are more clear, tones more accurate, and grammar much more natural sounding." We'll be doing more of these courses at higher levels starting in 2024.

 

Early China: History, Culture, and Archeology: I mentioned this course in a previous post, but that was before the course actually took place. I'm very proud of this one—it covers the history and archeology from the neolithic precursors of Chinese culture through the Han Dynasty. Each lesson consists of a history portion where we discuss the social and political developments of the time in question, and an archeology portion where we dive into a recently discovered archeological site that has reshaped our understanding of the period. The course also includes video walking tours of a few museums in China, along with a few thousand photographs of the artifacts in the museums. We also read from historical sources from the Shang (oracle bone inscriptions) through the Han, with both the original Chinese and English translation provided for each text.

 

Chinese Cursive Crash Course: an 8-week (or 8-lesson) crash course in reading and writing 草書 and other cursive styles. You'll learn the principles of abbreviation by which cursive forms of characters are created, which helps to decipher unfamiliar cursive forms. We also looked at a lot of famous works of 行書 and 草書 and discussed some of the most important calligraphers in Chinese history. This one was a super fun course. If you know at least 300 characters and want to learn about cursive, this is the course for it. 

 

Intro to Premodern Chinese Literature: A survey of Chinese literature through the early 1800s, starting with the Odes 詩經 and finishing with Dream of Red Chamber 紅樓夢. This one is taught by Brendan O'Kane, who has really done a bang-up job. Many of you longtimers will be familiar with Brendan, but for those who aren't, he's an accomplished literary translator and has taught Chinese literature and translation at the university level in both Beijing and the US. Our students have been crazy about it, so if you're into literature, I highly recommend it. Taught in English with both the original Chinese and English translation provided for each text.

 

Philosophy and Practice in Early China: A survey of the "six schools of thought" of ancient China, and why the "six schools" model falls short of describing the real situation. The course covers the major philosophical texts of the Warring States period, plus a lot of recently unearthed philosophical texts that are rewriting our understanding of early Chinese thought. It's taught by Dr. Sam Goldstein, who did his PhD on Chinese religion and excavated philosophical texts. Taught in English with both the original Chinese and English translation provided for each text.

 

And last week, we just announced a collaboration with Andrew Methven of Slow Chinese and the Mandarin News Mastery course. He's teaching a 5-week crash course on how to read the news in Chinese called the Chinese News Bootcamp, starting January 9. Very excited about this one!

[OneEye]

Bump to mention our Black Friday sale: 40% off everything in our store (including all of the courses mentioned above, of course). Discount should be applied automatically at checkout, but if not, use 'BFCM2023' at checkout.

[Dlezcano]

Hello, do you have any plan for releasing the expert version for 冫? Nowadays you are stating that it represents two metal plates, something you can see in the character 冶. However I searched for some info on Chinese sources like 小學堂, which shows that it's original form is related to 仌.  But i could not find anywhere anything similar to the two dots besides in the 麥方鼎 and 利簋 forms of 金 (by the way this is another important component that also doesn't have an expert version). Also I can't see why most of the meanings for 冫 are related to "cold" while only one (as far as I know) is related to metals.

Thank you and keep on doing your great work.

[Tomsima]

@Dlezcano Here's the expert info you need, following the source given for this entry by Outlier (季旭昇《說文新證》):

 

季旭昇 believes that 冫 is a related form of 吕. Outlier's entry for 吕 is 'two copper plates'. 何琳儀(《戰國》156)“甲骨文作呂，像兩塊銅鉼之狀，鉼之初文".  ("Oracle bone script writes 冫as 吕, looks like two pieces of copper plate, the early version of the character for 'melt metal together' (鉼).

 

There is only one source given for this theory. 季旭昇 then goes on to suggest that if  冫really was first 'metal plates', it was probably borrowed later for its meaning or its sound in characters like 冰, 冬 and 冶. It may be a phonetic in 冰, as the early pronunciation of 冫 may have been something like 'ying' (bear in mind the original gives 反切, so difficult to say what the actual intended pronunciation would have been). It may have been a meaning in 冬, indicating the 'fusion' of water together to form ice.

 

Here's the issue. Why is it more probable that the two dots represent metal plates and not water droplets? Surely water droplets are more likely to have been put into the script at an early stage, then borrowed to show the melting of metal, a much more complex process. Note that Outlier follows 季旭昇, suggesting that 凝 'to condense' takes its 冫from 'smelt' (note, 'smelt' actually being different from 'melt') and  冫 was only later borrowed to mean 'ice'.

 

I have to say, I am not convinced with this theory - its one of those dodgy ones you sometimes come across in 《說文新證》 which leaves you wondering why you should trust some pretty tenuous conjectures.

 

Presumably the best thing to do would be to seek out a copy of 林清源《戰國“冶”字異性的衍生與制約及其區域特徵》，《香港中文大學第二屆國際中國古文字學研討會論文集續編》,1995 if you really want to make a more informed judgement. Unfortunately it appears this book has not been digitised and is only available in some physical libraries in HK.

 

 

Anyway, hope this answers your question. I attach a snapshot of an early version of 冶 with the 《說文新證》 explanation for the components.

 

[Dlezcano]

Thanks for the effort with your answer Tomsima. At the moment I asked this question I hadn't any books to look for references. Regarding the possibility that 冫 is just a sound component in 冰 looks a little strange (and outlier states it is a meaning component too) since we also have 凍，冬 and 冷. To add more confusion to the matter I searched for 凝 in outlier and then they state that 冫means "frozen ice", while for 凍 it states that it means "ice; metal plates". Anyway I am not an expert and on the other hand I guess for some characters or components we will never be able to know the true answer.

 

[OneEye]

The next several releases will be all about adding new expert entries, and we'll be focusing on getting as many of them done for semantic components as possible, so it's likely that both 冫 and 金 will get expert entries soon.

 

冫 is an interesting one.

 

First, keep in mind that while 小學堂 is pretty convenient and is certainly better than, say, hanziyuan, it's not super comprehensive and I don't think it's been updated in 15 years or more. Also, different scholars will differ on which forms should go under which characters, as we'll see below.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that we (paleographers) are often working with very scant data. This field of research is somewhat like forensics—a bomb went off in a room (figuratively) 3000 years ago, and we have to work with what little evidence has survived in order to figure out what most likely happened.

 

I'll start with the entry in 季旭昇《說文新證》 that we based our entry on:

 

 

So 季旭昇 lists those first two forms under 冫/ 仌 and cites 何琳儀 who says it's the original form of 鉼, while other scholars (such as 董蓮池 in 《新金文編》) take it to be the original form of 金 and list it under 金. Some people list that form under 呂 (and note that 季旭昇 says they share an origin). These approaches are all pretty compatible though, as in any case, it's being taken as a depiction of metal plates.

 

Notice the third form, 勻, which originally referred to a unit of weight—"metal" makes much more sense here than "ice," I'm sure you'll agree.

 

Then there's 冶, which you mentioned, but I think 季旭昇's entry is really interesting so I'll list that too:

 

 

And then of course there's 冰. Here's 季旭昇's entry:

 

 

Note that JXS (following the Shuowen) takes 凝 to be an alternate form of 冰. I'd have to spend some time looking into that to be sure, but it's not super important to this discussion.

 

A few interesting things to note about 冰:

1. it's a 會意字, and means "water 水 solidifying like molten copper 冫" (or in simpler terms, "ice")
2. JXS thinks 冫 isn't a sound component for 冰, citing some middle Chinese 反切 spellings. We disagree with him on that (and note that phonology isn't his specialty). That being said, it seems there's still room for discussion here.
   • Note also that JXS doesn't state his opinion strongly here, saying something like "it seems like 冫 isn't suitable as a sound component" instead of an outright "冫 is not a sound component." He's generally pretty careful with his phrasing.
3. JXS says that it seems that 冫/仌 may have been borrowed (假借) or the meaning extended (引伸) to mean "ice" before 冰 was formed, with the 水 added later to form a new character. If that's the case, then by definition (at least the definition we go by, and that laid out in 詹鄞鑫《漢字說略》 which we take a lot of influence from), 冫 must be both a sound component and a meaning component.

One key to all of this is to notice that characters with 冫 as a semantic component with meanings related to "metal" all arose during the Warring States period or earlier, while those using it to mean "cold, ice" are later. There's a pretty clear temporal division here between "metal" characters and "ice" characters.

 

So putting all of this together, what seems to have happened is:

1. 冫 originally had to do with metal, whether you see it as the original form of 金 or 鉼, or a derivative of 呂
2. early characters containing 冫 (such as 金, 勻, 冶) have to do with metal
3. at some point, 冫 was either borrowed for its sound, or the meaning "metal plates" extended, to mean "ice," and eventually lost its association with "metal"
   • either of those is plausible; although we went with 假借 in the dictionary, frost will easily form on metal plates in winter, so 引伸義 is also reasonable
4. 冰 was then created to represent "ice"
5. 冫 having already been associated with "ice," characters created later with 冫 as a component used it for its newer meaning "ice"

As with all of our dictionary entries, if more evidence comes to light that makes this analysis untenable, we're happy to change the entry. But JXS's explanation fits the available data quite well, even if we differ with him on a few points.

 

Hopefully this helps to clear it up! Let me know if I missed anything or didn't explain something clearly—our Black Friday sale just ended and I've been sort of cobbling this answer together over the last few days whenever I had a few minutes to spare, so it's probably a bit disorganized.