ellipsis

[Pedroski]

I had this sentence today, and at first I couldn't wrap my head around it.

 

收费相差较多的是异地跨行的汇款业务。

 

So I tried this:

 

收费相差较多的汇款业务是异地跨行的汇款业务。

 

Then I tried

 

异地跨行的汇款业务是收费相差较多的。

 

Inter-city inter-bank remittance service charge differences are relatively large.

 

Is that about right??

[anonymoose]

The first two mean the same, basically as in your translation at the bottom. The final sentence where you have switched the elements of the sentence around has a different meaning, or at least, a different emphasis. I would translate the last one as, "Intercity interbank remittance service charges are what have relatively large differences".

[Pedroski]

The syntax threw me a bit.

 

Adjective——【nothing]——是——Adjective——汇款业务

收费相差较多的——【nothing]——是——【异地跨行的】——汇款业务。

charge difference comparatively many 的 [nothing] is [inter place inter bank] 的 remit service

 

Whereby [nothing] = 业务 or 汇款义务

[陳德聰]

"What has relatively large differences is 异地跨行的汇款业务."

The ____的是____ operates pretty similarly to "It is ___ that ___" clefts in that the focus here is on that which is 收费相差较多的, repositioning the focused element to the end.

[Pedroski]

You read 的是 as a syntactical unit?? A word??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altair]

I agree with the responses given, but will try another tack to explain my understanding.

收费相差 = service charge differences

收费相差较多 = service charge differences are rather large = the difference in service charges is relatively large

收费相差较多的 = the ones (where) service charge differences are rather large = what have rather large differences in service charges

收费相差较多的是异地跨行的汇款业务 = the ones where service charge differences are rather large are intercity interbank remittances

= What have relatively large differences in service charges are intercity interbank remittances

= Intercity interbank remittances are what have relatively large differences in service charges

= It is intercity interbank remittances that have relatively large difference in service charges

Grammar operates at several levels: lexis, syntax, discourse, etcetera. In my view, English speakers trying to understand Mandarin--especially with a grammar-heavy approach--should generally note these different levels.

At the levels of lexis and syntax, 的是 is not a unit. At the discourse level, however, the use of the pattern X 的是 Y is a way of emphasizing Y's particular or unique characterization by X, where X is usually a statement. English has several equivalent patterns, as I have tried to show. Word order in Mandarin is not merely an arbitrary part of its syntax, but is driven by discourse considerations as well. Although emphasis and discourse in English is not always closely tied to word order, it usually is in Mandarin.

[陳德聰]

Altair is pretty much my hero.

[Pedroski]

收费相差较多的是异地跨行的汇款业务。

 

In English we can say:

 

'The children are playing in the playground. The little ones in the sandbox, the big ones on the swings.' Here 'ones' is a pronoun for children. 

 

In German, this would be:

 

Die Kinder spielen auf dem Spielplatz. Die kleinen [ ] im Sandkasten, die grossen [ ]auf den Schaukeln. The adjectives 'kleinen (= little)' 'grossen (= big)' are here pronouns，or we have ellipsis. It is impossible to decide.

 

The difference is, in English, we need to use ‘one’ or 'ones', whereas, in German, we don't need this kind of pronoun

 

Now, here we have a Chinese sentence:

 

收费相差较多的是异地跨行的汇款业务。

 

An adjective, being a descriptive element, may be removed from a sentence. I called 收费相差较多的 an adjective.  This was not accurate. It cannot be removed, or the sentence collapses.

 

*是异地跨行的汇款业务。

 

So I think, the adjective 收费相差较多的 is acting as a pronoun, in the same way as we use adjectives in German,  a so called cataphor, its point of reference being 汇款业务.

 

Another explanation might be: Chinese does not need to use a verb (你多大， 你多高）. 是 = that 。

 

晚安！

[anonymoose]

The difference is, in English, we need to use ‘one’ or 'ones', whereas, in German, we don't need this kind of pronoun

 

I don't think it is obligatory in English. For example, "The big children are playing with their cars. The wealthy with Lamborghinis and the poor with their Skodas".

[Pedroski]

You are right. Just in my example I would not like 'the little in the sandbox' or 'the big on the swings'.

 

孩子们在公园，小的【】在沙坑里玩，大的【】在玩秋千。 If this is indeed an acceptable Chinese sentence, then Chinese syntax and ellipsis looks a lot like German.

[陳德聰]

That's precisely what Chinese ellipsis looks like, well done.

But German has those pesky articles and I am relatively certain "Die Kinder spielen auf dem Spielplatz. kleinen [ ] im Sandkasten, grossen [ ] auf den Schaukeln" is not acceptable.

I think if you want to call it a "null pronoun" you probably could, and I don't think ellipsis and status as a pronoun are mutually exclusive.