Laowai isn't 'foreigner', it's 'Asian'.

[AlexBlackman]

I don't think we can translate Laowai as foreigner.

Chinese people use it even when outside of China and Western children born and raised in China are still called laowai, even by those who know they are not.

Very few Koreans and Japanese are called it. It also can carry far less xenophobic bite than the English word "Foreigner"; Chinese can call their friends laowai but very few Americans would call their friend "foreigner"

 

I think it is more of a racial-descriptor, like Asian.

 

It can be neutral,   e.g. "My boyfriend is Asian", but can be 'other'ising,  "Asian students always sit together at lunch".

 

Like laowai, it also lumps diverse billions of people under one umbrella term.  Asian covers everyone from North Japan to Sri Lanka.

 

Do you agree?

[yueni]

老外 refers to anybody not Chinese. Period. I've never heard it used to refer to a Chinese person, though perhaps there might be some exceptions for overseas Chinese. If you want to translate this term, you have to think of it within the context of how it is used, because it has many meanings based on the context, and Chinese is, above all, a very contextual and Sinocentric language.

 

When Chinese people talk about 国内 in China, or anywhere else in the world, they only use it to refer to "in China". The literal meaning is "domestically" or "within the country", but in any context that I've ever heard it spoken, no matter what country it is spoken in, it always refers to China. If they mean within whatever foreign country they are in, say within the US, they will specify: 美国国内.

 

Same thing with 国外 it means foreign... wrt China. If for example, they are talking about foreign wrt  the US, then they will specify: 美国国外.

 

The Chinese people, China, and the Chinese language in general is very Sinocentric, so you have to apply these terms and use them with that mindset in mind. You have to remember the Chinese context when you use the language, because they are very black-and-white about it. It's us (the Chinese people) and them (everybody else), and this pov is pretty much standard operating procedure, which can make things interesting to handle when you are doing translation. As the translator, you have a better understanding of what the person means, so you can't just translate things literally, especially if it will give the reader doubts or cause misunderstandings for the reader.

[Hofmann]

I prefer to explain it as a vestige of a society unused to the presence of non-中華民族 Chinese citizens or citizens of other countries who still consider China their home, rather than some incurable aspect of the Chinese people. Some of my fellow Americans will be aware of the perpetual foreigner phenomenon, where a non-Caucasian American will be regarded by some backwards Americans as foreigners. I believe the same is going on with Chinese people, and it will take some time for them to stop equating 我國 with China and 外國人 with non-中華民族 people.

[yueni]

@Hofman

 

我国 = China 

 

我的国家 = my country

 

I don't think this will change. The language is what it is.

[Meng Lelan]

I've been called 老外 everywhere in the world including here in the United States. I used to have a Chinese boyfriend who objected to this universal usage of 老外 but I told him, well, China calls itself the middle kingdom, so if I'm not from the middle kingdom then just as well consider me an outsider. I don't find it bad or good or whatever, I would attribute it as a result of Chinese culture and history and language.  

[carlo]

When I was working in Beijing, I had a "ayi" working at my home, a native Beijinger. Her other part-time gig was a Singaporean Chinese couple with two sons living in the same apartment block. She would often refer to them as 老外. When I asked her about this, she said sth like, of course they are foreigners, what else should I call them? So it's a bit more nuanced that that. Her mental representation of a "foreigner" happened to be her employer(s). If you ask a bouncer at a Sanlitun disco, I'm sure he'd use the word differently.

[Hofmann]

(can't quote without browser problems)

When I say "my country" in English I'm not talking about England. Languages don't belong to any particular state.

[skylee]

I think this thread is relevant - http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/35003-%E6%88%91%E5%9B%BD-can-foreigners-use/

[shuoshuo]

I don't like the term 老外, and I don't like being called one. Although I know that the Chinese use it to mean 'foreigner'. Japanese, Koreans and many Asians aren't called it as often as other races because, esp. in China, the Chinese cannot differentiate between an Asian from some parts of Asia. Once they find out that the person is from e.g. Korea, they will say the person is 'Korean'. So there is an obvious reason as to why Asians are not as often called 老外, in comparison to non-Asians. But the term does mean 'foreigner'.

[abcdefg]

I always get a kick out of being asked questions like 你们外国人喜欢吃什么菜？ (As though all foreigners are the same and are all from the same single outside-China place.)

[Guest realmayo]

I quite like saying "我们老外"... especially where I'm knocking out some "你们中国人"s too. Whether it's an endearing quality or not Chinese people seem quite proud to see themselves as a group more often than English people would and when I'm in China I don't mind accommodating that. I do bristle a bit at being called a 老外 on my home turf though.

[Lu]

Yeah, or things like 'so how much would a meal in a restaurant cost in 国外?' Nonsensical question. I don't exactly mind being called a 老外, but if someone knows me for longer than five minutes I much prefer being called 小姐 or 女士 or my name.

I agree with the OP that 老外 doesn't cover the same meaning as 'foreigner'. It's usually specifically 'white person' or 'Western foreigner'. Asians are more often called by their nationality, it seems to me, and black people are 黑人.

[Shelley]

"When I say "my country" in English I'm not talking about England. Languages don't belong to any particular state."

 

I think this has to be a special case because English is the first language of many countries these days, USA, Canada, Australia, UK to name a few.

 

If a french person says my country in any language i would expect him to be talking about France and so on with other nationalities.

 

There are a few languages that can cause confusion with this method like Portuguese and Spanish, oh and French too, just to name a few.

 

But as a Canadian who has lived in Scotland, USA, and now England I can tell you that although they call it English in all these places, it is almost as different from one another as a foreign language. A Scot may say my country with a Scottish accent IMO will mean Scotland and if it isn't then he/she should make it clear because of the ease with which it can be confused.

 

I agree with the original statement but I query whether assuming the wrong place is a such a terrible thing, I think its quite understandable, if you don't hear the type of English ie in written form you have no references as to which English speaking country they mean.

 

For what its worth laowei does mean foreigner, simple wei means outside and lao can mean venerable - venerable outsider sounds ok to me. And outsider is any one not of a group.

 

You can be a outsider in lots of ways not just nationality.

 

I think venerable outsider is ok, they could have used something worse.

 

But what do I know, I am only a laowei

[陳德聰]

I like the comparison to the term "Asian" as it underlines how useless of a term 老外 is at doing anything but insta-othering.

 

Here in Vancouver where there are so many natural born "Asian"-Canadians, the term Asian similarly doesn't do anything but point at a huge group of countries that are very diverse and try to say that they're actually all the same, i.e. they ain't North American, and then try to affix that to an individual who potentially has never even been to Asia.

Similarly with 老外, my other mixed friends as well as peers who grew up primarily in China (but aren't ethnically Chinese) often get the 老外 treatment despite being anything but. When we bring it up most people say that it's because there aren't many people in the same situation in China but that's kind of bogus.

[AlexBlackman]

@Shelley  - I disagree that lao means venerable in this context.

 

老虎 (tiger), 老鸨子 (Brothel Madam) 老二 (I'm not translating it )

 

Laowai is at best, a neutral term,  外国人 and of course 外宾 are a lot more respectful.

[AdamD]

I'm as Anglo as Anglo gets and I've been referred to as a 老外 plenty of times, usually by Chinese people who think I can't understand what they're saying, but never pejoratively as far as I can tell. (A few months ago I got on a bus somewhere north of Beijing and the whole bus erupted with "老外" whispering, and then several people offered me their seat.)

 

The few times I've been called a 老外 by a Chinese friend in Australia, that person has apologised profusely. I've never cared and my non-Chinese mates never care either.

[Demonic_Duck]

@Hofman

 

我国 = China 

 

我的国家 = my country

 

I don't think this will change. The language is what it is.

Yep, language is what it is, a completely static entity that never evolves. Oh wait, no it's not.

 

I could imagine, as Chinese culture becomes more internationalised, a term like “老外” could eventually be regarded like the word “negro” is in English - i.e. not explicitly offensive, but very outdated sounding, and possibly indicative of outdated attitudes on the part of the speaker. I think there's quite a long way to go until that point at the moment though - I've heard Chinese people argue that “鬼子” is a perfectly acceptable term, and that despite being a bit outdated it doesn't carry any prejudice towards the Japanese. Considering the light in which the much less intrinsically racist "Jap" is seen in the English-speaking world, that's a pretty marked difference.

 

laowei

Might want to check your pinyin there.

[AlexBlackman]

Yeah, 鬼佬 is used way too much by Mandarin-speaking Chinese who really really should know better.

[Demonic_Duck]

I've never heard 鬼佬 used by Mandarin speakers. Is it common in the south?

[abcdefg]

I've never heard 鬼佬 used by Mandarin speakers. Is it common in the south?

 

I have not heard it in Kunming (SW.)