购买的

[Pedroski]

In a bank, a man is asking about a mortgage.

 

职员：好的，请你先介绍一下房子的情况。

山本：我购买的是个人住房，已经签订了临时买卖合约，成交价是120完原

职员：你有没有其他银行的按揭贷款？

 

Why does he say '我购买的是个人住房'? He has not bought it yet，he does not have the money. Why does he not say '我要购买的是个人住房‘？？

[Shelley]

Well he might be trying to sound positive to encourage the bank to give him the loan.

[jiasen]

Well he's already agreed to buy the house from the looks of it. He has agreed to a price and signed a contract, which presumably has a clause stating that he agrees to buy the house subject to obtaining finance.

 

That said, there is no past tense in the sentence. It's like in English, you might say in the same situation: "I'm buying an one bedroom apartment."

[Pedroski]

I'm buying would be '我正在买的‘ I think.

[anonymoose]

我正在买的 sounds strange. Why would you want to emphasise 正在 when it's not a salient part of the issue?

 

I agree with jiasen.

[陳德聰]

买 does not imply 买到 as "buy" does in English. You can 买 without actually buying the thing.

[Lu]

There's no 过 or 了, the buying has already been set in motion (house has been chosen, preliminary agreement with seller has been made) but has not been finished yet. I agree with Jiasen and Chen Decong, it means 'the house I'm buying'. Much as you can 杀 someone without succeeding in killing them, you can 买 for a while before actually owning the thing.

[tooironic]

I was just about the bring up the 杀 comparison. It's a fantastic point, and one that I originally read in An Anatomy of Chinese by Perry Link.

[Pedroski]

Put this the other way round: Would '我要购买的是个人住房‘ not be good Chinese?

[陳德聰]

It's grammatically correct Chinese but it doesn't fit this context. It implies you haven't started yet, but you clearly have.

Edit: Well on second thought you could say it, but why add extra unnecessary words when you have something perfectly fine already?

[Pedroski]

Aha, so this is a Chinese perspective of the act of buying. I thought Chinese used 买着 to express the concept of something ongoing.

 

Although I haven't eaten breakfast yet, can I say '我吃的早饭很好。‘？

[陳德聰]

Have you had a bite of your breakfast yet? If you've had a bite but haven't eaten the whole thing, then yeah, you could conceivably say that 我吃的早饭特好吃！but in this case I would nix the 吃的 since what else do you do with your breakfast?

 

I think you're getting hung up on the part where "to buy something" in English entails the achievement/completion of the act, whereas 买 makes no mention of that achievement, only the attempt in progress. At least that's how I see it.

[Pedroski]

Not a morsel! 饿死啊！

 

I think this is a perspective thing. I would say 'The house I want to buy' because I do not have the wherwithal to buy it. 我购买的 suggests completed action to me. Obviously, I'll have to pay attention to that in future.

[Su Haifeng]

@Pedroski. In China, the apartment purchase will be seen as legitimate as soon as both parties sign the contract, even the deal is not finished yet. That is why the person can say"我买的是个人的房子"

[Pedroski]

So, although he does not have the money, and he is in the bank specifically to inquire (咨询按揭情况) about the possibility of obtaining a mortgage，he considers the house bought! 暂时合约 = 购买过？？

 

According to that logic, I have already bought my dream house in Hawaii! Just can't pay for it!

[skylee]

According to that logic, I have already bought my dream house in Hawaii! Just can't pay for it!

Please note the sentence "已经签订了临时买卖合约，成交价是120元". If you have agreed on a price with the landlord of your dream house in Hawaii, and have signed a contract with the landlord, then yes you have bought the house. If you can't pay for it afterwards, there would be troubles (forfeiture of down payment or law suits, etc to make up for the landlord's opportunity costs).

[Pedroski]

‘临时’ means temporary. The meaning being, if I do not cough up the cash within a period of time, 我购买的一个人住房 is not mine. Nor do I have any legal rights such as tenancy or the right to sell, for a property I have not paid for. If the banks knocks me back on the mortgage, I will not have an apartment.

 

So yeah, I would have to read '购买的‘ as 'in the process of buying when I have arranged the cash'. Just seems strange. "我买的车“ I understand as the car I have bought, not the car I would like to buy when I have the readies.

 

But strange is good!

[Lu]

Pedroski, not sure where you're from or how house-buying works there, but in Holland it's usually like this:

1) you see a house you like;

2 You negotiate with the seller (or the agent, rather) until you agree on a price;

3) You sign a preliminary contract, stating that you have x amount of time to agree on a mortgage with the bank, and that if you can't get a mortgage the deal falls through;

4) You agree on a mortgage with the bank;

5) You pay the money and sign the definitive contract, both through a notary;

6) The house is yours.

When you're still working on step 3-4, you can certainly talk about 我购买的房子, 'the house I'm buying'. 我要买的房子 would be applicable for step 1-2. And I think you can also talk about 我买的车 if you already know what car you want and know that you can afford it. (If you can't afford it, it's 我买不起的车 :-) ).

Tooironic: I forgot where exactly I found the example, but it was probably from that book as well :-)

[skylee]

For those who are interested, they can find in the links below the steps of buying a house (or flat/apartment) in Hong Kong -

Bank of China (HK) website - http://www.bochk.com/web/common/multi_section.xml?section=personal&level_2=mortgage&fldr_id=419&NOCACHE

HK Government website - http://m.www.gov.hk/en/residents/housing/private/buying/buyingDomesticProperty.htm

The information below is found in the HK Govt website and one of the links there -

"Provisional Sale and Purchase agreement is signed initially after you and the vendor both agree on the deal. It is a legally binding contract that must be fully observed and performed by the parties involved. You should seek legal advice whenever you are in doubt."

"Despite bearing the word "provisional", a duly signed provisional sale and purchase agreement is a legally binding contract that must be fully obeyed by the parties involved. If the formal sale and purchase agreement (which is intended to replace the provisional agreement) cannot be signed, the parties can rely on the provisional agreement to proceed with the deal or to sue for compensation."

" Also as pointed out in a Court of Appeal case (See To Keung & Another v Sunny Way Limited), there would be an "escape clause" in most of the provisional sale and purchase agreements. An "escape clause" is a clause allowing a party who wishes to withdraw from the transaction (i.e. to cancel the deal) within a short period of time after signing the provisional agreement to "buy his way out". In the case of a vendor who wants to withdraw, he agrees to return the initial deposit to the purchaser, doubled by a sum of equal amount which he must pay the purchaser (to pay the "double deposit" ). In the case of a purchaser who wants to back out, he forgoes the initial deposit. Where either party seeks to rely on the escape clause, that party must do so in strict compliance within the time allowed by the provisional agreement."

Not sure if things are different in the US and/or Hawaii.

[Pedroski]

I have absolutely no problem with '我买不起的车'

 

And the legal niceties of a purchase agreement are also not a problem. What I cannot fathom is a man who says “我购买的个人住房‘ ， when he has not bought it, nor does he have the money to buy it, and said money depends on the whims of a bank in Shanghai, who may very well say "No, sorry."

 

How is that bought??

 

It is not 'bought', it is 'in the uncompleted processs of being bought' which may or may not be successful.

 

For me, this is just an interesting spin on '我购买的’ as not relating to any actual event that has happened, which means it is a future tense, disguised as a past tense. Which is confusing! But the Chinese people I spoke to today have absolutely no problem with this formulation. They said it is bought with a temporary agreement to purchase. So the formulation ‘临时合约’ is misleading. It is binding. I still think 山本 is dumb to bind himself to an agreement which he may not be able to fulfill. 笨蛋的山本！

 

晚安