Choosing Between Beijing and Shanghai

[channamasala]

So...

...say you've realized that you can't take more than one intensive course at a university before running out of money and needing to work in China (and learn Chinese with a tutor or something like that). You'll probably take an intensive course offered at BLCU in the summer of 2004 but are not opposed to moving after that.

Say you've narrowed your choices down to Beijing and Shanghai, for hte sole reason that you want a big city - a very big city - and you'd like to experience life a little further north in China (further north than, say, Guizhou). You're not very concerned about the fact that Shanghainese is spoken in Shanghai and are mainly thinking about atmosphere and the availability of non-matriculation part-time courses you may take while you are working.

You're young, energetic, have lived in a small town in a poorer part of rural China for a year and you want a big, fun, vibrant shiny city this time.

So do you go to Beijing with all its cultural offerings or Shanghai for its coolness of atmosphere?

I've not yet visited either, this will change in August.

[Guest mirela_violeta]

We're kind of having the same dilemma...Beijing the best place to learn chinese...Shanghai cool city great experience...hard choice..at least it's up to you. I already made my choice. I had to choose 3 universities. I chose Beijing before Shanghai, but now I'm wondering if I should have chosen Shanghai first. Anyway it's not up to me now. The chinese decide where I'll go and it could be either of the two. I have no ideea what's better though. Has anyone been to both places, more exactly studied in both places?the

[confucius]

What is that? Beijing not "liangkuai" enough for you? I've got two words for the Beijing-Shanghai showdown: "embassy parties"

There! Still think Shanghai is cool?

[Guest mirela_violeta]

I was thinking more about SARS when I said I would rather go to Shanghai now...though everything seems to get back to normal I wonder if it can all happen again. But I know Beijing is great and I'll go anyway SARS or not. But noone wants to be in quarantine and be stressed all the time because of this disease. Now that I have the chance to study in China I just want to make the most out of it and enjoy my time there.

[channamasala]

you gonna get me invited to those parties, confucius? poor kids in their early 20s who are completely unconnected to an embassy of any kind don't get to go to those.

What i'm weighing it on more than language (I could so totally pick up Shanghainese too) is availability and quality of separate courses for Chinese and the da chenshi de (is there a de there?) qi fen.

[TSkillet]

Here's my take:

Shanghai is a CITY . . . located in China.

Beijing is a Chinese city.

(I like Shanghai more, myself)

[Guest Anonymous]

Here's my take:

Shanghai is a CITY . . . located in China.

Beijing is a Chinese city.

(I like Shanghai more' date=' myself)[/quote']

In reality, both Beijing and Shanghai are Chinese cities and cities located in China. However, I'm aware that this isn't your point. The message you're trying to get across is extremely prejudicial. By saying Beijing is a "Chinese city" and Shanghai is merely a city which happens to be located in China suggests that the success of Shanghai has nothing to do with the Chinese people. Also, since you indicated that you prefer Shanghai over Beijing and Beijing is a "Chinese city", you suggest that the Chinese people are inferior and even the best they can do can't compare to Shanghai, a city which the Chinese has nothing to do with (according to you). I don't believe such discriminatory notion should go unchallenged. The fact that you're Chinese yourself just makes matters worse.

[channamasala]

Kulong - I don't think that's what TSkillet meant. I know it may sound that way, but he wasn't talking about the "success" of Shanghai or any of that. All I wanted opinions on was the atmosphere - the da chengshi qifen if you will. And from what I've heard, Shanghai, although a Chinese city, has a "Western" feeling to it, much like Hong Kong (but probably less pronounced, I wouldn't know as I've never been to Shanghai). In contrast, Beijing has the feeling that most Chinese cities have, which I can say from experience is NOT a "Western" feel at all. The closest I got to a Western feeling was in Qingdao, and possibly some parts of Guangzhou (like, say, Teem Plaza). It's not "Asian" per say, but distinctly...well, one must say "Chinese" because China is the only place where these sorts of cities with this sort of atmosphere can be found.

Arguably most of Kashgar and Turpan aren't "Chinese" cities even though they are Chinese cities...the atmosphere is different.

[LFCLOUDS]

Sounds to me like your allready set on Shanghai, or are at least leaning in that direction

[channamasala]

Yes, but I haven't actually seen the two cities yet. I am leaning towards Shanghai but I may be impressed with Beijing...then again, it may depend upon where I get the best job offer.

[TSkillet]

The message you're trying to get across is extremely prejudicial. By saying Beijing is a "Chinese city" and Shanghai is merely a city which happens to be located in China suggests that the success of Shanghai has nothing to do with the Chinese people. Also, since you indicated that you prefer Shanghai over Beijing and Beijing is a "Chinese city", you suggest that the Chinese people are inferior and even the best they can do can't compare to Shanghai, a city which the Chinese has nothing to do with (according to you). I don't believe such discriminatory notion should go unchallenged. The fact that you're Chinese yourself just makes matters worse

So you think Shanghai is more successful than Beijing? I never indicated that.

channa got it right. My take is that if you want to live in a city which really feels like China - then Beijing is the better choice. If you want to live in an International City - like Paris, London, New York, San Francisco, Hong Kong or Tokyo - then Shanghai is the choice. The difference has nothing to do with what country the city is in - but more the feel of the city.

Shanghai doesn't feel like a city in China. As London isn't really an English city, or Paris isn't really France, and New York City isn't really the United States - Shanghai isn't really China. In that these cities are of these countries - but they're also MORE than these countries. The French are certainly responsible for Paris, English for London, Americans for New York - but these cities represent a lot more than merely the country they're located in.

Where you got the nonsensical notion that I don't think the Chinese had anything to do with Shanghai's success is beyond me. Why would you think I think the Chinese had nothing to do with Shanghai? I mentioned nothing of the sort.

[Guest Anonymous]

So you think Shanghai is more successful than Beijing? I never indicated that.

channa got it right. My take is that if you want to live in a city which really feels like China - then Beijing is the better choice. If you want to live in an International City - like Paris' date=' London, New York, San Francisco, Hong Kong or Tokyo - then Shanghai is the choice. The difference has nothing to do with what country the city is in - but more the feel of the city.

Shanghai doesn't feel like a city in China. As London isn't really an English city, or Paris isn't really France, and New York City isn't really the United States - Shanghai isn't really China. In that these cities are of these countries - but they're also MORE than these countries. The French are certainly responsible for Paris, English for London, Americans for New York - but these cities represent a lot more than merely the country they're located in.

Where you got the nonsensical notion that I don't think the Chinese had anything to do with Shanghai's success is beyond me. Why would you think I think the Chinese had nothing to do with Shanghai? I mentioned nothing of the sort.[/quote']

First of all, your anti-China attitude may have contributed to this misunderstanding. Also, I've explained why I came to the conclusion in my previous post so I won't retype everything.

[TSkillet]

anti-China attitude? okay, a place I've called home for 6 years is a place I'm anti?

By saying Beijing is a "Chinese city" and Shanghai is merely a city which happens to be located in China suggests that the success of Shanghai has nothing to do with the Chinese people.

I've suggested nothing of the sort.

[Guest Anonymous]

anti-China attitude? okay' date=' a place I've called home for 6 years is a place I'm anti?

By saying Beijing is a "Chinese city" and Shanghai is merely a city which happens to be located in China suggests that the success of Shanghai has nothing to do with the Chinese people.

I've suggested nothing of the sort.

I don't care to waste space on this forum for such petty arguements. If you wish to continue, please feel free to e-mail me at luchanan@yahoo.com.

[TSkillet]

well, it's not like there's really anything of interest being posted on a daily basis here.

I'll just answer it here. You seem to think that any criticism of China equates to being anti-China. It's simply not the case. I bring up China's past and present faults because I hope they change. I want them to change. And sometimes I have the ability to at least nudge China towards that change in my work.

It's because I love China so much, that I do criticize her. It's the same way I feel about the United States.

Now, as to the original post, channa saw it correctly. My intention is that Shanghai is an international city, and Beijing is a city where one can have the "China experience." To say that my preferring an international city over the "local" city means that I'm anti-local doesn't follow. It's just a preference for one over the other. If I said I like New York more than I like, say Memphis, due to the internationalist "feel" of New York, wouldn't mean that I disliked the United States. On the contrary, the US is the only place New York could exist. And China is the only place that Shanghai could exist. But Shanghai is not China . .. not really.

[Guest Anonymous]

well' date=' it's not like there's really anything of interest being posted on a daily basis here.

I'll just answer it here. You seem to think that any criticism of China equates to being anti-China. It's simply not the case. I bring up China's past and present faults because I hope they change. I want them to change. And sometimes I have the ability to at least nudge China towards that change in my work.

It's because I love China so much, that I do criticize her. It's the same way I feel about the United States.

Now, as to the original post, channa saw it correctly. My intention is that Shanghai is an international city, and Beijing is a city where one can have the "China experience." To say that my preferring an international city over the "local" city means that I'm anti-local doesn't follow. It's just a preference for one over the other. If I said I like New York more than I like, say Memphis, due to the internationalist "feel" of New York, wouldn't mean that I disliked the United States. On the contrary, the US is the only place New York could exist. And China is the only place that Shanghai could exist. But Shanghai is not China . .. not really.[/quote']

I do not believe criticism of China = being anti-China. I am aware that nothing is perfect and I, myself, find faults with China (government, people, culture... etc.) from time to time. However, judging from your attitude from the history forum, my impression is that you believe China (or more specifically, the Chinese government) is purely evil. If I appeared to be a "blind patriot", it's only because you attacked China so much that I had to constantly defend her. Also, just so you don't automatically label me as a "red commie", I was born and raised in Taiwan, the REPUBLIC of CHINA, until I was ten years old. I spent more than half of my life here in the United States and have visited various parts of China in the past five years. I personally don't approve of the non-democratic government of mainland China but I do recognize whatever good deeds they have accomplished. As much as the Western media would like me to see China as the "evil empire" that the Soviet Union was once portrait as, I try to see the truth for myself (which is why I tried avoiding the Tibet issue because I haven't been there personally yet).

[Guest Bad Jelly]

Beijing or Shanghai? Hmmm. I've never been to Beijing so I won't comment but I will say while you're here to should try and flat with chinese people and you'll learn mandarin sooo fast, just becasue you have to. And where I live in Shanghai, if you can't speak chinese you can't get anything to eat so yea ....

[Guest Jouni]

Hi everyone!

I just arrived to Beijing yesterday with an intention to spend rest of this year studying mandarin (with a background of 1 year studies) and then finding a job in China.

After some consideration I thought I'd come to Beijing first, learn proper mandarin first and THEN go to work in Shanghai. I am supposed to sign up soon for a course in BLCU starting in september and take some private lessons before that (anybody can recommend a good private tutor?)

Now I am hesitating a bit whether it makes sense to rent an apartment etc. for 4-5 months and then go through the pain again for moving to Shanghai. Or maybe I should just spend few weeks now in Beijing and then head to Shanghai for good...

Has anybody lived and studied in Shanghai, and learned to speak mandarin properly? Is it possible to practise putong hua outside the classes, or is it only Shangainese that one hears in the streets?

(I have a friend who studied few months in Beijing and another one in Shangai and they were both happy with the teaching and loved the cities.)

Does anybody know where to get short-term apartment rentals? I wouldn't like to stay in dorm or hotel, but rather have own or shared flat.

Thanx and regards,

Jouni

Ps. One last questions: has anybody tried the chinese mobiles (TCL, panda etc)? I need to get a new mobile and have thought of betraying my country and not buying a Nokia this time... :-)