Is living in the West better than China?

[Johnny20270]

Not a provocative question by any means but I had this discussion with a friend of mine and when I told him of my plans to move to China, he and others looked at me as if I had said I was going to get a s@x change

 

I realize all these things are very subjective but I wonder what western people who live in China think of this statement if you were to weigh everything out and come out with a yes/no answer

 

For example: some things are clearer better: Living in Europe is better then China in terms of social services such as health, pension etc as is quality of life if you just examine a topic like pollution, population density etc

 

On the other side, things like, closeness of family, discipline of kids may be more important to people so China appears to be better at that from what I see

 

 

[liuzhou]

Better for who?

 

For me, as  you say, some things are better; some things are not. Of course. It's an unanswerable question.

 

What is a s@x change? Bought a new musical instrument?

 

What is wrong with writing 'sex change'?

 

I'm intrigued by your notion that discipline of kids is more important and better handled in China. My experience is totally the opposite. Parents let their children do what ever they want. Just last week I had dinner with a friend in a restaurant. Her 4 year old daughter ran around the room screaming, then climbed on a chair and turned all the room lights off and on - mostly off - and her mother said nothing.

 

My hosts then drove me home. I was in the back with the mother and child. The brat kept opening the car door while we were moving (no child locks). Each time, the mother just laughed, closed the door and said nothing to the child. She must have done so ten times on the short drive to my place. 

 

I'm not generally in favour of infanticide, but I was considering making an exception.

I wish that were an atypical case, but I know it's not.

[Shelley]

I would prefer to live in China because I like old Chinese architecture and the landscape.

 

I would go and live in china at the drop of a hat if it wasn't for the big things in my life that keep me in the west, my health, my partner and my cats.

 

There is no better or worse because it all depends on what you are comparing and what is important to you.

[Johnny20270]

What is wrong with writing 'sex change'?

 

 

Nothing at all, but didn't know what the etiquette was on this forum so erred of the side of caution. - anyway minor point

 

 

It's an unanswerable question.

 

Quite the opposite, I specifically asked from the view point of the observer. So say for me: is life better in UK or Syria. UK naturally. Is life better in UK than USA, a 50/50 in my view. 

 

 

As for the kids comment? Do you live in the UK? Have you see what kids are here especially in the major cities? Its why schools are having major problems recruiting teachers because of the unruly behavior in the classroom.  From my perspective: Chinese kids may seem more like spoilt brats at times and throw temper tantrums but not necessarily rude or offensive like many are now here. 

 

There is no question about the worsening discipline of kids in the UK now compared to 20 or 30 years ago. In my day, you would get a wallop from the teachers if you tried any sort of behavior that happens now. Chinese kids in the UK notable stand out for being smarter, hard working and more disciplined, so maybe that comes from parental guidance.

[Xiaoxiongwv]

China can definitely give you a large head ache, and many things here are just done differently and sometimes without reason. Many people don't like to line up, service in restaurants can be terrible, people can be rude on a different playing field, and many other things that you just want to pull your hair out. It also depends on where you live. Life in Beijing will definitely be different than, let's say Kashigar. If you are here for the right reasons, and are really connected to the culture, than you will generally find that one year passes,by really fast, and when you turn around it is five years already.

For me, I have more personal freedom, can save money, make new friends, and travel Asia a lot more freely. I meet many from the West who have no intention of going back in the near future and I am one of them.

[liuzhou]

 

Do you live in the UK?

 

Do you live in China?

 

I am from the UK, but don't currently live there. However the comment I queried wasn't about behaviour in the UK; it was about behaviour in China.

 

 

Chinese kids in the UK notable stand out for being smarter, hard working and more disciplined

 

Stereotyping is never a good idea. I've met utterly indisciplined brats from China in the UK, too.

[Johnny20270]

No I don't live in China, hence the whole thread, interested in foreigners opinions given the negative opinion China often gets here.

 

Stereotyping is never a good idea.

 

 

I agree, but there're are common traits and generalizations that can be made within a culture, right?

[Silent]

 

I wonder what western people who live in China think of this statement

 

 

Quite the opposite, I specifically asked from the view point of the observer.

 

 

I think I can fairly safe predict that they will overall consider China better. If not, they'ld move back. Off course there will be a few that don't consider China better and are in the process of moving back or are just fools.

As you already stated yourself it's subjective and depends on what is and is not important/preferential to you.

[Lu]

For children, 'the West' is probably better. Yes Chinese kids are very disciplined (at school at least, from what I've seen) but they get enormous amounts of pressure and homework and I doubt that makes them happy.=

For old people who lived in China all their life and who have enough income to live off, China is better socially: friends around, dancing and singing and such outdoors, looking after the grandkids... I think many old people would enjoy such a life. But when one needs more and more healthcare, certain Western countries are probably better.

For studying, 'the West' is probably better for most disciplines. Although for anyone who likes adventure, I'd thoroughly recommend spending some time in China or another foreign country.

For entrepreneuring people who want to work hard and have a good idea, and perhaps know some Chinese, China is a great place to be. It's settling down a bit now, but in many ways it's still the Wild East where anything is possible.

As to life in general, in China the air is bad, you can't trust the food, the government is autoritarian and blocks part of the internet, healthcare is not that great if you have anything serious. On the other hand, the food is very tasty, many things are very cheap, and there are lots of interesting things going on. So not sure who wins there (Taiwan, perhaps).

[gato]

For children, 'the West' is probably better. Yes Chinese kids are very disciplined (at school at least, from what I've seen) but they get enormous amounts of pressure and homework and I doubt that makes them happy.

Pressure is not necessarily a bad thing. Too little pressure, and things can get boring. What's worse than the pressure is endless memorization in the "humanities" classes and political brainwashing.

[Lu]

Some pressure is good, children need to be challenged. Enormous amounts of it are not, imo. English lessons at three years old because otherwise you'll be behind before you started, three years of hell to prepare for the 高考 or else your life will be ruined... stuff like that is not good for a child I think.

[Demonic_Duck]

I think I can fairly safe predict that they will overall consider China better. If not, they'ld move back. Off course there will be a few that don't consider China better and are in the process of moving back or are just fools.

What you're saying is that the only rational reason someone would possibly want to live in another country is that they consider that other country to be better (by some metric of overall goodness) than their country of origin.

[Silent]

Yes, that's what I'm saying and in some cases it may not be true. E.g. some-one stays because of legal issue's like a lost passport and having a hard time to get it replaced or for children only because they're legally tied to their parents. Also there's something like friction in the sense that it takes time and effort to realize a changed reality and consequent return.

 

But in the large majority of cases people choose to move to obtain some kind of benefit because that benefit outweighs the negatives. Think a few years of hardship in exchange for perceived career opportunities or hardships in exchange for contact with their children. People expect to get something out of it or they would not move or move back when the added value is negative. You may of course debate or these benefits are quality of life or even attributable to China but if you do so the debate becomes subjective and thus meaningless.

[MPhillips]

I think people who move to another country almost always do so for rational reasons--for instance the vast majority who left Europe for the US came because they didn't have enough to eat. Although our official history textbooks love to emphasize the "quest for religious freedom" aspect & most Americans probably think is was their ancestors' "thirst for adventure" that motivated them, I doubt prior to the 20th cent., many people would care to undertake a dangerous ocean voyage, to leave countries as wonderful as GB, Ireland, Germany, Italy, & France (etc.) if they had enough to eat. Actually many went with the intention of returning & a lot did.

[renzhe]

But in the large majority of cases people choose to move to obtain some kind of benefit because that benefit outweighs the negatives.

I really have to disagree with this, as someone who has lived in several countries. People move for many different reasons, and people often move out of curiosity and a sense of adventure.

A cost-benefit analysis of added value has never entered my mind before deciding to move. It went more like: "Portugal? Sounds awesome, let's go!" To this day, I have a hard time telling people which of the countries was "better" or offered more added value. If given the option, I'd rather go to a completely new one and risk everything than return to any of them.

I guess I'm a fool, but I'm not the only one

[Johnny20270]

I really have to disagree with this, as someone who has lived in several countries. People move for many different reasons, and people often move out of curiosity and a sense of adventure.

 

 

 

I guess both of you are saying the same thing.

I guess I'm a fool, but I'm not the only one   

 

The 'benefit' for me as an example is as exactly as renzhe described it. Financially and career wise its a very poor move for me. But I am not materialistic like many of my comrades here are, so its very similar to the utility function in economics as I see it. 

 

Economics does drive many people. Its natural for a poorer people to migrate to a more affluent society 

Many Chinese and other nationalities in the UK  even after 20 years still have a very poor command of English and came here purely for economic reasons. They often dream of moving back to their home country but never do as they have settled here with house job etc. Apart from the money, some still see their own country as better (in their view).

 

I haven;t lived in China yet just visited several times so I really can't tell. From what I have seen of the place I still want to go and live for a while but in my view the UK is a better place to live if wanting to settle. And this is just my view. Not trying to be offensive! (I know it sounds like it)

[MPhillips]

The fact that some people might pull up stakes and move far from their home without carefully weighing the relative advantages & disadvantages isn't so surprising, some people like to gamble in casinos, hang-glide, bungee-jump, race cars etc. Whether to admire their nerve or mock their foolhardiness is another story.

[Silent]

 

and people often move out of curiosity and a sense of adventure.

I absolutely agree, but to me this is a definite benefit. Not all benefits are financial. See my example: " or hardships in exchange for contact with their children."

 

When you move you get a whole package ranging from climate to career opportunities and from nature to (specific) people but also more abstract things like satisfying curiosity and sense of adventure, bragging rights of having lived there, the feelgood factor of contributing to an economy in need or of the added opportunity to do 'missionary' work for a 'good' cause. These more abstract benefits are at the root of most of my travels and I consider them great benefits.

[Silent]

 

without carefully weighing the relative advantages & disadvantages

No-one says it has to be weighed carefully, they move because of expectations it will bring them something. In the end it will bring them something or they will return home. Some people won't return because of what people might think about their 'failure', to me those are the fools.

[MPhillips]

I didn't mean to suggest intangible factors such as intellectual curiosity weren't rational motivations, if there is anyone worthy of respect it's someone motivated by intellectual curiosity. Although I value getting my three squares a day I'm not what anybody would call materialistic--I'd rather live in a shack someplace conducive to thinking well than in Julio Iglesias's mansion in this God-forsaken corner of the world.