I'm going crazy (aka 3-month Mandarin course help)

[Sujiali]

Hi People! 

 

I have been lurking on the forums for a while and I think the time has come for me to post and ask for help, guidance, kind words, ...whatever you have to offer. Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to be as specific as possible as per guidelines found in the sticky post.

 

Learning Background

I am a 23yo Mandarin student at an Australian university, and have been studying (Simplified) Mandarin for two years (about to finish the second Intermediate course at my uni and will complete Integrated Chinese L2 Part 2 in November) and, while I think I have a good character base, my speaking is absolutely abysmal. I haven't been to China since I started learning Mandarin and relying on my university course is not doing any good to my speaking. I am interested in Chinese culture and modern history, and might think about pursuing Chinese studies at the graduate level, but so far I'm driven to learn Chinese purely because I want to be able to attain "fluency" at some point (and I define that as being able to converse in Chinese, read the news, watch TV).

 

Aim

My aim is to improve my Mandarin, especially my spoken Mandarin, as much as possible while in China. I have already been to China as a backpacker before I started learning Chinese, so I don't have any interest in doing tours and such, as I've pretty much ticked off most "must-sees" around China. I am also interested in a more serious learning environment, I am not a party animal and I'm married, so I can only justify being away from my other half for so long if I am really making some sort of improvements to my Chinese.

 

The Plan

My university holidays are coming up soon and will be between November 1, 2014 and February 28, 2015 (4 months) and I was hoping to go to China to study Mandarin. Unfortunately I really can't take any more time off, or I would be more than happy to do a longer course, so these four months are all I've got. I would prefer going to a 2nd or 3rd tier city rather than BJ or SH, mostly because I do enjoy the challenges posed by being in smaller environments with fewer foreigners.

 

In terms of accommodation, I don't need there to dorms wherever I study, and I am pretty self reliant in terms of figuring out where to live, so that's not a big issue I would say.

 

The Budget

I would like to find a course that does not exceed 1000/2000USD for roughly three months without accommodation. I am open to slightly more but I don't think I could afford anything extravagant like CET. I would be more interested in joining group classes rather than one-on-one, as I think I would benefit more from an environment where others are learning. Some point out that being with other foreigners can be detrimental, but I am very driven and usually refuse to speak other languages while learning "in country", so that doesn't really worry me.

 

The Issue 

Now, why am I going crazy if I seem to have it all figured out? Well, I just keep on reading different opinions and can't seem to find anywhere that would be suitable for the purpose of learning Chinese!

 

• I've looked into BLCU in Beijing, but everyone seems to think Beijing is a bad idea as it is too "western".

• I've looked into HIT or Bincai in Harbin, but then again I was told I've be crazy to go to Harbin in winter (I have previously lived in Finland, but the worst I've experienced is -20C).
   
• I thought about MTC or NCCU in Taipei, since their prices are reasonable and their dates would fit perfectly with my holiday period. However not only is Taipei shunned for Mandarin learning (different romanisation, Traditional instead of Simplified) but reviewers of the programs seem to think that the courses offered there are only good enough to get a grasp of Chinese before moving on to further studies in the mainland (people of Forumosa are especially harsh on these courses).

• Any other city I could possibly think of as a learning location (Shanghai, Tianjin, Chengdu, Xi'an, Guangzhou) is pretty much off limits because of their different accents and/or dialects. Moreover, there is not a huge deal of information about the courses offered in smaller cities, so I can never figure out if they offer short term courses for individuals or not (Shaanxi Normal University, for example, is particularly confusing) and if they fit my schedule. And yes, I've emailed around with almost no luck, but I feel time is running out quickly and I should be booking my course very soon.

 

My question are: 

- Are my worries about the above-mentioned places founded or should I just go anywhere and put my best efforts in it?

- Does anyone know of, or has been to, relatively good short term courses in any 2nd or 3rd tier cities? 

- Is there any hope for me?

 

Thanks in advance for trying to help out, I know there are heaps of people looking for advice on studying in China however I haven't been able to find any recent advice that fits my criteria which is why I decided to post, but feel free to point to other discussions if my questions can be answered there.

 

苏嘉丽

[stapler]

I know this isn't related to one of the questions you asked, but as a fellow university student in Australia I'm amazed that you (apparently) haven't made use of the fact that seemingly 30% of our campuses are Chinese to get some speaking practice. There's 1000's of lonely Chinese students around! - Or maybe you have tried, but it's still not enough. /end rant

 

I haven't studied in China myself, but from my travels there I can tell you that you won't have trouble finding heaps of Mandarin speakers in "dialect" cities so I don't think you should rule out Chengdu, Shanghai, Guangzhou etc.

 

Again, based on my inclinations, I don't think there's going to be much difference between Mandarin courses in Taiwan or China and I don't think there's going to be much difference between cities. It really does seem like it's a matter of how much you put it on your own - and that applies no matter what country you're in. I don't even study Chinese at my university, but through self study and befriending lots of Chinese students on campus I think my level is just as good, if not better than the students who are relying on classroom teaching only. This should be even more true in China itself where you can go "even deeper".

 

Hopefully others can provide you with some more specifics finding a good short-term course in China!

[grawrt]

I think if you want to seriously work on your speaking ability you should reconsider your stance on 1-to-1 classes. Classrooms just don't have the time to pour into fixing everyone's mistakes, and there isn't much class time for everyone to practice speaking. They're more expensive but with reason. Just sayin.

With that said I can comment on Beijing (BLCU) and Harbin.

Beijing (BLCU): The area of the school (wudaokou) is pretty western. You'll definitely hear more english. Also, although Beijing is in the NE and should have standard accents all around, there are many people from outside Beijing working in restaurants, etc. You'll hear non-standard putongua. BLCU isn't bad, but it's not the best for speaking. Almost all of my classmates spoken chinese is way beneath their other levels even though they're all very smart and intelligent and know way more than me. Some of my classes are really fun though, my favorite class is grammar and differentiation of chinese synonyms. My grammar teacher teaches things that my teachers have never focused on before, and that's the importance of where you put the stress in your words. His ears are pretty sensitive, so if he hears a very dull monotonous way of reading a sentence out loud he'll stop the class, repeat it in the correct way, and then explain what the extra stress adds. My other class (differentiation of chinese synonyms) is just a really hilarious teacher. He's quite dramatic and wants all of his students to listen and speak (and not write at all) lol. It's also a very interesting class. The other classes are like... ehhhhh. It's okay.

Harbin:  HIT is a college of science/technology and is a top school for these reasons, not for quality chinese courses. I wouldn't recommend you go study chinese there. That's like going to MIT to study English. If you were to choose one I'd go with Bincai. I remember looking into them before, I liked that they had free tutoring (unless maybe I misread). You could also try the other colleges in Harbin (preferably one whose emphasis is on language/Liberal arts). At least there you could probably find a tutor or language exchange partner. I can't really speak for any of the schools since I studied at a private school, but I really loved Harbin. It's a great city to learn mandarin. Nobody speaks english, and if they do it's very little. Everyone is also really warm and friendly. They love to talk with foreigners (and stare, though you'll get used to it after a while). I had a lot of people bump into me and when they realized I could speak chinese they jumped right into conversation. Also, it's so cheap in comparison to Beijing, and the food is delicious!


Wherever you decide to go will never be 100% perfect, so try and remember that when making your decision.

[imron]

My university holidays are coming up soon and will be between November 1, 2014 and February 28, 2015 (4 months) and I was hoping to go to China to study Mandarin

You won't really be able to find university courses offered over this period and if you do, they will be interrupted by the Chinese New Year also.  Your best bet is going to be with a private school - but even then, still be prepared for interruption over the Chinese New Year.  If you're looking for a warmer climate, Keats school in Kunming is a school that seems to come up in discussion quite often.

[gato]

 

As others have mentioned, to improve speaking, it would be best to focus on one-to-one tutoring.  Your tuition budget of USD 2000 for 3 months is a bit on a low side for one-on-one teaching, but not impossible.  

 

Check out the legendary post by Tamu below on his 4-month experience in Taipei.  You should consider following his footsteps (in terms of methodology, not necessarily the city).  Tamu didn't give specific instructions on how to find tutors.  You might want to try on the iTalki website first.  Others have reported good experience finding tutors there.

 

Don't worry too much about the local dialects in a city.  If you go to a city with plenty of non-locals (such as Guangzhou, Xiamen, or Kunming), the most prevalent dialect on the street is likely to be Mandarin.   As you might or might know, Chinese dialects can be mutually incomprehensible even with a distance of just 100 km between villages.  

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/43939-independent-chinese-study-review/

Independent Chinese study: review

 

The rate at which independent tutors initially quoted me ranged from $4 to $16 per hour, with most initial quotes from $5-10. The more experienced/professional tutors usually quoted initial fees toward the high end of the range, but always dropped their rate when they realized how many hours I want to study and that I didn't want them to do any preparation outside "class" hours.

 

The average rate I actually paid tutors over the period worked out to about $5 per hour of actual "class" time.

 

Additionally, many days after "class" I also went with the tutors for lunch or dinner. We always kept talking Chinese. I would pay for the meal but not for their time.

 

Between direct payments to tutors plus all the meals I bought for them, my total tutoring costs over 4 months was about $2200 for 500 hours of one-on-one time.

 

Living expenses

Everyone will find different living situations, but this is just to give some idea of what rough ranges I found as of February, 2014 for someone looking to study Chinese in Taiwan.

 

In Taipei, a room in most shared apartments can be found from around $225 to $400/month plus expenses. An apartment on your own can be any price obviously, but you can figure around $350-600 for a small-ish standard place.

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/31769-italki/

italki

[Kelby]

In my experience, the city and dialect is kind of immaterial, so long as you're in non-cantonese territory. I think what you need to clear up for yourself is how tied to classes you want to be. If you're hell-bent on joining a language program then that'll probably make things a little more expensive. I agree with Gato that 2000 seems low for going this route.

 

Another route would be to go to a city under a 3 month tourist visa and spend your time throwing yourself into mandarin-only situations. This could potentially lower your costs quite a bit. There's a guy here in Zhengzhou who is doing this sort of thing by hitting up curious people at the bars for Chinese conversation. His "tutoring" only costs a beer per person and he's found a decent group of people to hang out with.

 

Another option might be to find a short-term English teaching assignment at a place like Linguaphone. I got my listening back up to snuff when I first went back to China over breakfast conversations with the staff at the school in Zhengzhou I was working at. Only about half an hour to forty minutes each work day over a few months. That was technically time I was getting paid for, so the practice time expanded my budget instead of cutting into it.

 

If I were you I'd also look for a language exchange with some Chinese students at your university when you get back as well. If you can line up a handful of people and talk to them about anything and everything over coffee every so often that should be a decent amount of practice per week. If that doesn't work, throwing up a flier for a tutor might not be a bad idea. Just make sure they don't slip into English to explain things you don't understand and you should be fine.