Question for the "Dragon" (龍) word...

[ramipaykin]

hey there and thank you very much!

i'm about to tattoo the zodiac dragon symbol (the chinese word).

I want to split the word and to draw only the right "draw" from the word - 龍

**see attached photo**

 

 

-what does it mean if I will draw only the right part?

-what about this old symbol- orcal bone script ? does it means dragon?

-is there any other nice looking words in chinese or japanese for the zodiac dragon?

-i know there is another option- 龙 but I want it to look like a dragon (for example-the orcal character or part of the topic option)

 

Cheers, Rami !

[aone]

 The right part means nothing without the left part. If you need a dragon, how about the these?(click the url)

 

http://image.baidu.com/i?tn=baiduimage&ipn=r&ct=201326592&cl=2&lm=-1&st=-1&fm=result&fr=&sf=1&fmq=1412044932453_R&pv=&ic=0&nc=1&z=&se=1&showtab=0&fb=0&width=&height=&face=0&istype=2&ie=utf-8&word=%E9%BE%99%E7%BA%B9%E8%BA%AB

[Kamille]

Keeping only the right part of 龍 is a very bad idea, as aone pointed out, it means nothing. At first people will not understand, and then when they know they will laugh. That's a typical example of a failed tatoo.

 

Your picture is indeed the oracle bone character for "dragon". If you like it you can tatoo it, of course. Very few people will understand it at first but the meaning is right. And when I say "very few people", it means "only highly litterate Chinese readers and those who have a fascination for old script". It's a style. I assume that if you want a Chinese tatoo you don't want everyone to understand it easily, and the oracle bone characters look mysterious even to most Chinese people.

 

The Japanese character for dragon is 竜.I wouldn't say it looks more like a dragon but I'll leave this appreciation to you.

 

If you are looking for a character that looks like a dragon and means dragon at the same time, why not give it a try with figurative calligraphy? I can already tell you're going to like it. Below is the character 龍, painted in such a way that it looks like a dragon, in three different styles:

 

 

[rezaf]

You can try the oldest form http://www.zdic.net/z/29/zy/9F99.htm

[ramipaykin]

first of all, thank you all!

 

well.. i'm not sure that any chinese guy will ever see this tattoo.. I just want it to be correct for my self, I have attached some scratch that I have made, before I had your answers..

I assume that I will not do it, because it realy means nothing, although I like it very much =]

 

BTW- If i'd like to find a dragon, I could just write dragon at google of course...

I want especially the word "dragon" as it symbolized at the chinese zodiac. the issue is that I want it to be look like a dragon (even just a look like, some reminds of a dragon)

 

Kamille

when u say figurative calligraphy.. it means a way of drawing the characters? but it is still a chinese word?

i think that now my decision is between orcale bone, or u'r dragon that i liked- dragon

or maybe I can add to the attached photo the missing left part, as a dragon wings.. like the style of the figurative calligraphy..? - if i will do it, is there any rules? what can I change?

what should I know before trying to draw it by myself..?

 

and again thank u all =]]

 

 

what is the seal script means?

Edited September 30, 2014 at 10:48 AM by ramipaykin

[Lu]

Seal script is an old way of writing. When you come across unfamiliar terms, it can often help to google them. Wikipedia for example has a lot of useful information, in many different languages. Also consider reading up a bit on Chinese calligraphy. The figurative forms Kamille posted are the character 龍, meaning 'dragon', but written in such a way that they really look like a dragon. I think they're beautiful, but not easy to reproduce as a tattoo, so make sure you find a good tattoo artist if you pick one of those.

[Kamille]

I can't find in the etymological dictionary, which means that it most likely never existed. I could take a look inside the 金文估林 or the 古文字估林 to make even more sure but since I never found a situation where this online dictionary was incomplete, you can trust it as it is: this character is highly likely to be fake.

 

If you take a look at all the historical versions of 龍, you'll notice that originaly there was only the left part of the character, the right part was attached to it later, about 2000 years ago, as it looks. So if you want to use only one part, you have to keep the left one, as the right one definitely has no meaning on its own.

 

Apart from that, Lu has already answered most of your questions, I'll just complete by saying that Chinese dragons don't have wings. Winged dragons are typically Europeans. And yes, the character is already complete in a figurative calligraphy. If you want to add details to it you should be very cautious not to destroy the character, because figurative calligraphy is right at the boundary between scripture and painting. If you add anything to it you might just favor the painting over the scripture (in other words: it won't be "figurative calligraphy" anymore, but just "painting"). 

[skylee]

I agree that that picture is nice and that in #6 and #7 is sound advice. But it seems that the picture is quite hard to reproduce as a tattoo (i.e. high failure/ error rate). And there is one issue - the dragon in the picture seems to have too many feet. Compare it with the logo of Dragonair, which is a normal looking dragon with four feet.

One minor point, a dragon with five claws refers to the Chinese emperor. Other dragons have four or less claws.

[ramipaykin]

hey there,

 

well, u can't find it Kamille , because I drew it lol =]

this is what I drew more.. but i'm not so satisfied -

now I know that the chinese dragon is without wings, so it makes it all different.

about the chinese calligraphy, it's common decided by definition draws? or any one can try his skills?

this is what I wish to achieve-

the upper left side is sketch of what I already have, and the rest is the next.

it's fit perfect for me the right part of the character we talked about, but I find it should be with respectful for the complete masterpiece as it should be.

the truth is, that it's my daughter zodiac year and she's 2 years old.. and i want kinda cute dragon and "cool" at the same time.. and that it will look like some unknown forgotten language like the scale bone.

if i'm annoying with my questions and not understandable, forgive me because i'm a surreal artist, and I can't allow my self to make it simple =]

 

ps- it's not 5 claws, it's 3 legs (one of them because of the perspective is hidden)  the rest it's just bones that are visible.

thank u all for the help!

[Kamille]

If you watched Dragon Ball as a kid you had a great example of what is a dragon for the Chinese: 

 

It's like a snake, except divine. It's full of curves. I've never seen a squary dragon.

 

Yes, calligraphy has its own rules, but I'm not sure about figurative calligraphy (including works of arts like yours here that consist in drawing a character in the form of a picture). I guess it's pretty free as long as people can recognize the character. 

Having said that, your second picture is very pretty. I like it. It's just that there's only the right part of the character, right? I think you said you wanted to add the left part later?

Besides (it's my opinion now), I think the right part as you draw it might be a bit too squary, I'm used to see curvy dragons. You can make the character more curvy, there's no problem with it. Now, once more, this is only my opinion when I say that your dragon is too stiff. I can't say other people will have the same opinion. But really, I always see curvy dragons. No squary ones.

 

Now you're on the right path, I think. You're getting close. Great job. Very cool and cute at the same time.

[ramipaykin]

hehe.. thanks =]

yeah, I prefer it will be more curvy, and maybe more naive.. like a baby dragon..

I should draw another sketch..  soon updates.

 

BTW- why the dragons behind the chinese DBZ dragon, have wings?

i'm really thinking about the scale bone..

it's fit perfect as well, it's ancient and interesting, but it looks too satanic =\ (and if i'll change it a bit, it would not be a scale bone character, isn't it?)

 

Cheers!

[Kamille]

why the dragons behind the chinese DBZ dragon, have wings?

 

Good question. Well they are European dragons, obviously. I always thought that European dragons and Chinese dragons were such different things that they shouldn't be both called dragons in the first place. It makes the distinction blurry for most people. The picture here obviously was created by someone who didn't know the difference.

It's the same for the Chinese phoenix and the European phoenix. Two different things. But since they share the same name, people got them mixed (and now the distinction has gotten really burry about these two).

And it's even worse for the Chinese unicorn, sometimes even called Giraffe (!), since it absolutely has nothing in common with the European unicorn in the first place. No need to say that the name Giraffe is even more of a complete absurdity.

 

You can change the oracle character (what you call a "scale bone character"). You can. It all depends to what extend you want to change it. Oracle characters are basically pictures in the first place and they come from a very ancient time were no real rules dictated how to write.

Some people liked to keep them simple, some people liked complication, some liked their dragon to look to the right and some liked their dragon to look... mmmh "creative" perhaps?

Though it's true that all the dragons written at the time looked fierce and powerful.

[Lu]

i'm really thinking about the scale bone..

I think you mean 'oracle bone'? I like that one too. But mind that it doesn't look much like the half-character you have now.

[ramipaykin]

Of course not Lu

 =]] the oracle character is other option, the pic I mentioned before is quite look like a satanic draw, so it's not the ultimate option for me. (for now..)

Kamille, I find ur answers really funny and very helpful !! I enjoying communicate here and to learn new things, that without u guys, I probably could never know. so thank u all!

****

I drew new one.. i'm not sure what to do next, so I left it with pencil.

i'm not sure what to do with the left part, I thought about merging it with the chiense clouds I drew before..

[Kamille]

Maybe you could turn the left part into a temple or something? The upper part could easily be turned into a temple, and the lower part into a path that leads to it. The clouds look a good idea too. I don't know. You're the artist