Some questions about teaching in China

[SteveR]

Hi guys,

 

A short introduction and then some questions for you guys.

 

I’m 50 years old, I’ve been living in Thailand for more than 6 years and for the past 4 years I have been teaching math for the primary years in a Thai private Bilingual school. Before I came to Thailand I had the chance to teach English conversation for 2 years. I’m from Holland and therefore considered as a non-native speaker, although I usually introduce myself as a native non-native speaker on the account that I have a clear neutral accent. However, my grammar really sucks, no doubt about that one. So be gentle with pointing out all the mistakes in my short story,  .

 

I teach 24 periods of 50 minutes each per week and the rest of the week it’s checking the student’s bookwork or designing exams or whatever admin may come up with. As a subject teacher my days are pretty much filled with work. Classes usually have around 25 – 30 kids and most of them are little spoiled brats and from what I've been reading on this forum and other forums, basically the same stuff that’s happening in China, happens in Thailand. We cannot fail any student and whether a student’s level is suitable or not for that grade, the parents paid the tuition fee, so he/she needs to participate and succeed/pass. Admin is as irrational as can be and logic does not apply in this country. But still, I love living in Thailand and for the most part it has been good to me. Moneywise, China would be the smarter move.

 

I have my BA (non Ed), TOEIC and I will most likely do a 120 hours online TEFL course before I come over to China and by that time I will have 6.5 years of teaching experience.  (I know a TEFL is not mandatory but I don't want to give my future employer any kind of reason for objections or excuses for whatever.) Besides, I might learn a few new things.

We don't have these tight restrictions on breaking contracts, but as loyal as I am, I will finish this school year first and then come over to China for the second teaching semester.  My plan is to teach conversational English for primary or middle high school kids late March.  Honestly, my English is good but absolutely not good enough for Uni or High school kids.

 

So I've been busy responding to some job adds and I had a few offers that weren't that bad. One of them was in Beijing, 16,000RMB after tax but without housing. 25 teaching hours and the rest office work. Pretty much the same schedule I have here in Thailand. Some offered jobs only paying around 8,000 – 10,000 for the same load. I don't have any preferences for a city yet, I ‘m just looking for the best offer and that city will be my home for the next (couple of) year(s).

 

1) What I want to ask the forum members is what kind of salary I should be expecting for a city like Beijing after tax, without housing, with the workload described earlier. If a lesser workload for the same amount of money is available, I would go for that option off course. The differences between these job offers are so huge, that I must admit that I'm getting confused what to expect. My plan is not to start traveling around China, instead I will do tutorials after work hours and in the week-ends. At least for the first year(s).

 

2) How flexible is this demand for 5 months’ rent in advance? Is there any way I can negotiate it to only first -, last - and 1 month deposit?

 

3) Does my TOEIC open extra doors or will it provide more salary and/or more leverage with any negotiations or it doesn’t matter that I have a TOEIC.

 

4) It’s not yet clear to me how this RP and FEC works. You apply for a Z-visa, then you get a FEC and then right afterwards the RP, right? So the FEC is dependable on the Z-visa, and the RP is dependable on the FEC.

 

5) I assume a criminal background check from Thailand is sufficient, right? After all, I left my country officially more than 4 years ago.

 

6) Any good recommendations for employers or companies?

Thanks

With regards to my short introduction, after reading this whole novel, I have to say mission failed. I can only hope that for a newbie like me to this forum, it will be forgiven.   

 

 

[ChTTay]

1) As with many things, it depends but, generally, i'd say many private language schools in BJ seem to be around the 10k mark with housing or 12k with. A ESL teacher in an internationa school or kindergarden might be looking at 15-16k. Hard to say on the hours. My school is around 20 a week. No office hours really apart from training and maybe a meeting. Best to find out what they expect you to do during "office hours". Some jobs let you just sit around and study Chinese...others mighht make you do other non-teaching things.

2) Where I live it's not 5 months in advance. It's 3 in advance. I thought this was fairly standard for BJ. You pay 3 months in advance and give a deposit of 1 month. I've found landlords/agencies unwilling to talk about shortening this.

3) not sure

4) Essentially a "visa" just gets you in the country, then you apply for a residence permit in order to stay here. The permit is tied to your job or, in the case of student visas, to the school. If you quit the job or school your RP will no longer be valid.

You don't really need to worry about this. You aren't expected to do any of this. Your school will handle it all for you. You may just be required to turn up somewhere one day (with someone from your school to help you).

5) Never assume. I would guess they'd need one from your home country... Maybe with the Thai one too.

6) Any major company. Or the school I work for haha

Edit: Also note that doing tutoring work (I assume you mean this when you say "tutorials") would technically be illegal. Your residence permit is tied to your job so any other work - 1on1 or for another school - wouldn't be strictly legal. Also, your school may have a clause in your contract against doing work outside their school. Of course, for both of the above points, if no one finds out then no worries. Many people straddle the line of what is legal and what is not. This seems to be getting harder though with restrictions/checks getting more regular/thorough.

[SteveR]

Hi ChTTay,

Thanks for your advice.

Is there any way I can do tutoring work with an extra RP or any other path I can follow to do this legally. I can always negotiate with the school about permission for this,but I don't want to start doing things right away on a not so legal way. However, I'm pretty determent to do tutoring after work hours and in the week-ends to supplement my income to the max.

I tried Googling for different schools in different cities to see if I can contact them directly, but this isn't an easy search. In most of the cases these schools don't have an email address or the Google translation of their website gets totally screwed up. You can always send me a pm if your school is hiring, so I can look at their website and the benefits they are offering. 

[Simon_CH]

I don't know much about teaching salaries in Beijing, but keep in mind that a comfortable life is considerably more expensive here than anywhere in Thailand, Bangkok and Phuket included. So take that into account when looking at salaries.. personally I would not want to live in Beijing below 20k, which is also what most of my younger friends (25-30 age range) seem to be making.

 

Coming from Thailand you may be able to save more here but may have to downgrade your lifestyle quite a bit.

 

Numbeo:

 

 

Consumer Prices in Beijing are 5.71% higher than in Bangkok

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Beijing are 15.41% higher than in Bangkok

Rent Prices in Beijing are 35.14% higher than in Bangkok

Restaurant Prices in Beijing are 59.67% higher than in Bangkok

Groceries Prices in Beijing are 4.39% lower than in Bangkok

 

Though I strongly disagree with groceries, quality vegetables, meat, dairy, imported brands are much more expensive in China than in Thailand.

[SteveR]

Hi simon,

thanks for your input. I'm (hoping)going to do tutoring after working hour and in the week-ends, picking up 10 hours per week, x4, that would be another 6,000RMB extra per month. 150RMB per hour is pretty standard, what I've seen so far. But, I'm not in China, I get my information from different forums and websites, so the information is sometimes very conflicting. The 20k for Beijing, is that included housing or without? I'm hoping to save 10k - 15k a month. Salary and tutoring included. And at the same time trying not to live like a hobo. Duable or not? And for the cheese, a kilo would cost me here in Thailand about 125RM and a bottle of medium good wine 90 - 120 RMB.

[ChTTay]

"personally I would not want to live in Beijing below 20k, which is also what most of my younger friends (25-30 age range) seem to be making."

I disagree with this. I am 25-30 and only know one person my age of that kind of salary who teaches here. Thats becasue, as well as doing a small amount of teaching, her main role is improving her school (an Intl school) curriculum. I honestly doubt you'd find work at 20k, unless i'm missing something pretty big about living and working in Beijing. As for living below 20k, it depends totally on your lifestyle. If you are cooking with western import foods or eating western food out very, very often, then you would probably need a 20k job but, otherwise can live very well in BJ on a fair bit below 20k. Also, it would depend where you live and the kind of apartment you want.

Saving 15-20k seems very unlikely. Not doable.

As for working legally as a tutor, if the school had tutoring work they got you to do, then it would be legal i guess. However, It seems like you wouldn't be getting more for this as it would be through your school. Even with "permission" from the school, it still wouldn't be legit. If you definitely want to do tutoring work while working at another school, you are going to have to get comfortable with it being "not really legal" here. As i mentioned, its pretty commonplace for students and some teachers here to do tutoring on the side. You should know that you could, potentially get in trouble though.

A regular smallish block of chedder cheese (whats that? 330g?) is going to be at least 35rmb. Medium wind probably more than 90-120 but depends on your taste in wine really.

[Lu]

I had Chinese colleagues making 5000 rmb a month. So you can live on that, but it means renting a room (not the entire apartment), eating out only at cheap places, not buying cheese or drinking import beer, little travelling, etc. If you're in it for the money, have you considered Korea? From what I heard the pay is better there.

Out of curiosity, may I ask why you're leaving Thailand for China?

[ChTTay]

I always heard that Korea pays the best but isn't fun, Thailand pays the worst but is really fun and China is somewhere in the middle.

[SteveR]

Hi Lu,

working in Korea is out of the questions if you're not a native speaker. And no matter how good I think I am, I'm no native.{C} 

For the reasons of me leaving Thailand, after teaching here for 4+ years, I will break it down in different points.

1) the new regulations state that I need to have a degree in Ed, otherwise they won't give you a new permit to continue your teaching. And you need this "permit" to renew your visa. At this moment they are brainstorming about new regulations concerning teachers, but it doesn't look good. And nobody in his right mind with a degree in Ed would work in anything else than an International school in Thailand.

2) my wife makes 12k and I make 8k (RMB) per month. We live very comfortably with that kind of salary, but we have a baby (17 months old) and at the end of the month, there's not that much savings left. With a huge responsibility like that I can't continue living day by day. 

3) teaching in a Thai school (private or government) is like working in a circus on a rainy day.To be confronted every day with the reason why Thais are scoring so low on their English proficiency is quite demotivating. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the school where I work and the college's that I'm working with, it's just that the whole system isn't created to help/improve your students on any educational level at all.   

[Simon_CH]

 

I disagree with this. I am 25-30 and only know one person my age of that kind of salary who teaches here. Thats becasue, as well as doing a small amount of teaching, her main role is improving her school (an Intl school) curriculum. I honestly doubt you'd find work at 20k, unless i'm missing something pretty big about living and working in Beijing.

 

I should have probably mentioned that they are not teaching. You're right, making around 20k as a young teacher will be difficult, saving 15-20k extremely unlikely, even for most expats below executive positions.

 

Because of the higher quality of street food (eating out at quality places is much more expensive in China) and groceries in the market in Thailand (fruits are often more expensive here than in Switzerland even)

I would guess that you'd need at least 50% more money to have a simple but comfortable life in China.

 

I find your goal of relocating somewhere with higher earning (and saving) potential laudable but I'm afraid you're in for a reality check once here. I like the place, and intend to stay for a while, but many teachers seem to end up very frustrated indeed with the place and leave their contracts prematurely. 

[Lu]

Thanks for the background, makes things clearer.

As to your reason 3, I haven't taught in China but from what I heard, the situation is not that much different there. So if that's an important factor for you, perhaps you need to rethink this.

As for salary, yes you can expect to make more than that in China. But can your wife find work there as well? If not, the total income is not much higher than now, and moving country is not free. Or are your wife & baby staying in Thailand? If the baby is coming with you, I'd try to find a city that is not too polluted. If I had a baby, I'd do my best not to have it spend time in Beijing.

And lastly, have you considered Taiwan? To be honest I'm not sure how the pay is there, but there is demand for foreign English teachers, the air is clean and the people are nice, and it's closer to Thailand than Beijing is.

[ChTTay]

Also you may find it a little difficult to find legal, well paid work in Beijing as an English teacher if you aren't a native speaker. Esepcially right now when they are tightening regulations. You may be better looking at less popular cities who could have greater chance of bending the rules for you.

[SteveR]

ChTTay,

 

I have no idea where this "difficult to find legal well paid work if I'm not a native speaker" comes from. I think with my +6 years of teaching experience, I would be more than qualified for any city in China. I do acknowledge that I have zero experience working in China or how things work in China, but I did do a little homework on the regulations concerning working in China. I would say that with these new regulations a lot of the teachers working in China now are " not legal". The text in blue comes from a website with information regarding the requirements for teaching in China. 

"Beijing municipal authorities have announced that from September 15, foreign nationals coming to work in Beijing must meet the following requirements; they must be in good health; have no previous criminal record; be between the ages of 18 and 60; have at least a bachelor’s degree and two years relevant experience and in the case of teachers (excluding language teachers), 5 years relevant work experience.

In addition, foreign nationals working in Beijing must have a fixed employer, a valid passport and obtain the correct working documents and resident permits, and not work outside of the limits set by their work visa. Moreover, from October 31, all foreign teachers planning to work in a school or training center must have a valid teaching qualification from their own country, or an international teaching qualification such as TESL, TESOL, TKT or CELTA.

[SteveR]

Hi Lu,

 

Also in Taiwan you can only find work as a teacher when you're a native English speaker, so that's not gonna happen either. My wife works in an international school, so our daughter will be able to go there, almost for free, when she turns 3. So unless my wife will be able to land herself a job in an International school with these benefits in China, she will stay in Thailand. It's not my favorite scenario but since she has a much higher paying job than me, it would not be so smart to trade that in for a lower paying job in China. I still have a few months to figure things out, not planning to leave before the end of March, and by that time I hope I've found myself a trustworthy employer with reasonable benefits and enough know how to survive the first few months.  

[ChTTay]

It comes from... Being the truth. I'm sorry if this has taken your by surprise.

Being "legal" or "not legal" really just depends on what's in your passport. If a teacher has the correct residence permit in their passport, even if they don't meet the new requirements, then they are legal.

In Beijing there is perhaps the largest supply pool of teachers in China. Schools that can legally hire foreign teachers are unlikely to hire a non-native speaker. Equally, Beijing is the capital and home of the government so any rules and regulations tend to be stricter. The schools will be reluctant to hire non-native speakers because it's harder (perhaps impossible for some schools) for them to get the right paperwork/permits for them in Beijing. In addition, parents at the school would be unhappy at having a non-native speaker. As a student, I knew non-natives who worked on the side as a teacher. They all had to lie about their nationality.

You have managed to find some good information on general requirements for teachers. If you have a look at most job requirements or indeed a range of websites showing teacher requirements, you can also see many of them require applicants to be native speakers.

I am NOT saying you won't be able to find a job in Beijing or in China. I am saying you may find it more difficult than you expect, especially in Beijing. Also that you may have to prepare yourself for the possibility of having to work in another city instead.

Generally, the further away from Beijing the easier it would be for schools to bend the rules. Even some more famous cities, far from Beijing, hire non-native speakers in order to fill gaps in recruitment. I have a friend who worked in Xi'an for many years. Even though it's a popular student city, they struggled to find native speakers to fill all their teaching jobs. They hired a few teachers from various other countries and managed to get them the right visas/paperwork.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know how your search goes.

Also, check out davesesl cafe for jobs.

[Lu]

To my knowledge, Taiwan's regulations saying that English teachers have to be native speakers are pretty similar to those in China.

[SteveR]

Hi Ch,

Thanks for all the advice and I will give you guys a heads up when I find a job and arrive in China. I will most definitely not limit my search only to Beijing, and I will have a closer look at the tier 2 cities.