Why does Chinese sound like gibberish some times?

[Manuel]

My Chinese vocabulary is not the richest out there (because I don't study) but I generally have no problems communicating with the natives, and yet every now and then I encounter native speakers with whom I can't have a conversation without having to ask "what did you just say?" after every sentence...

 

I usually expect countryside people to be more difficult to understand, in fact even in my own country I can have difficulty understanding speakers from small villages, but I often find young people (aged 16-24) use colloquialisms/neologisms, speak faster and, worst of all, mumble their words in ways that divert greatly from the standard Chinese pronunciation us foreign learners tend to aim for. When I ask them if they can speak more slowly and clearly, they do it for 5-10 seconds and then regress to gibberish mode again. Is it just me??

[gato]

If you can post a recording, we can let you know whether it sounds like gibberish

[Demonic_Duck]

My Chinese vocabulary is not the richest out there

I don't study

 

That's 80% of your problem right there. The remaining 20% is accounted for by the following reasons (in no particular order):

- Dialectical differences

- Background noise

- Very colloquial language

- Very formal language

- Cultural differences

- Unfamiliarity with the topic under discussion

- Neologisms

- Fast talking speed

- Mumbling

- Speech defects

- The fact that you're more tired/stressed than normal on that particular day for some reason, and as such unable to concentrate well

- Possibly some other factors I haven't thought of?

[anonymoose]

Assuming it's not your own problem, I guess it's dialect, or mandarin heavily influenced by dialect. This is often the case with uneducated country folk.

[陳德聰]

This is often the case with educated city folk too.

[edelweis]

I have found the same regarding younger Chinese people vs older Chinese people.

I always assumed that older Chinese people are more patient and better able to slow down/dumb down their speech, because they have experience teaching little kids how to speak.

[Manuel]

With grown up people when I don't understand a word I usually have no problem identifying the pinyin and I can look it up, with some young people I just can't make out the words. But of course broader vocabulary and being more familiar with fixed expressions and the way Chinese people speak in general would definitely help.

[Manuel]

Chinese is one of those few languages you actually have to sit down and study. No matter how long you've lived in China, unless you study the characters your Chinese is going to suck indefinitely. Languages from culturally different countries that use a phonetic alphabet, such as Korean, are infinitely easier to pick up.

[anonymoose]

Chinese is one of those few languages you actually have to sit down and study.

I don't study

 

There's your answer then.

[Shelley]

I think the OP has answered his own question in posts #7 & 8.

[Manuel]

[MariaMaria]

Hi Manuel 费大曼

 

I've used your QuickPinyin for a long time and I love it. I use many free software programs but never have any real communication with the authors, so it is great to find a post by the person who created the program and be able to directly thank you and praise your work. :)

 

It's not very difficult to see where is your problem with gibberish. I agree with everyone here that it is much more a question of lack of study and focused practice than of anything else. The irony is that you put so much thought and effort over a very long period into creating and improving QuickPinyin. So I'm curious about why you don't actively study Chinese any more and not continue broaden and deepen your vocabulary. It's so interesting to me that a person who made such a useful piece of software for my Chinese study life himself does not study so much anymore!

[Manuel]

That's because I don't enjoy memorizing stuff by rote or reading material that doesn't interest me (e.g. passages from text books). I have learnt most of my Chinese passively by talking to people, chatting on QQ/WeChat, and on Taobao when talking to sellers. I am not an avid reader either, even in my own language, but when I start I can't stop (e.g. I read The Da Vinci Code in one very long sitting last year when I got the flu). But I love creating stuff with my hands and with my mind. I particularly enjoy software and electronics. I am currently working on an electronic musical instrument which draws me in completely (I produce music/dj too).

 

I've never been a devoted student, so I resort to more organic methods when it comes to language acquisition, such as watching a film several times and looking up every word I don't understand. This approach is proving to be more fun than SRS methods (e.g. Anki) which I used to idolize, or painful ploughing through text books.

 

Thanks for your kind words too!

[imron]

TV can also be good for that.  Be sure to check out the TV Series recommendations thread from the Grand First Episode project.

[Manuel]

I'll definitely check that, imron, thanks.

[Lanchong]

but I often find young people (aged 16-24) use colloquialisms/neologisms, speak faster and, worst of all, mumble their words in ways that divert greatly from the standard Chinese pronunciation us foreign learners tend to aim for

Don't forget that English speakers do the same things as well. If the sentence "I'm going to the shops" is said quickly, some native speakers would pronounce "going to the" as "ge ne ne". And you wouldn't think twice about it because your English is good. But I'm sure there are some Chinese English-learners thinking "That sounds like gibberish...".

You're right that it does seem to be more noticeable among younger people speaking putonghua, at least where I live. I guess that might be because it's the younger educated-city folk who speak putonghua casually among themselves. Older people will speak the local dialect in casual situations, and so aren't accustomed to casual, slurred putonghua.

I don't know many textbooks who talk about this, simply because there used to be very few people with putonghua as their primary language - and took the liberties with it that native speakers like to do. It's a new phenomenon.

[Manuel]

That's right Lanchong. There's actually a technical term for the phenomenon you describe, but I forgot what it was. Basically, in fast speech the articulators don't quite "make it" to their intended positions but rather approach the intended positions. For example, in Spanish the sound 'B', which in theory is a labial stop (full contact between upper and lower lips to fully obstruct the flow of air) the upper lip and the lower lip don't come into contact but rather come close to each other, becoming a labial approximant instead of a labial stop.

 

The same happens in Chinese, for example 多少钱 duō shǎo qián becomes duō er qián. In Chinese the tones introduce an extra layer of complexity, because tones can also be simplified, as in the example I've just given, where the tone of shǎo becomes a soft tone (essentially interpolated between the surrounding tones).

 

Lazy pronunciation is a natural phenomenon that occurs because every process in nature seeks the most energy-efficient path or configuration. Similarly, humans adapt their speech habits in such a way that the speech organs (tongue, teeth, roof of mouth, glottis, velum...) move as little as possible whilst retaining intelligibility. As a result, speaking becomes less tiring and we can also speak faster. Native speakers learn how far they can push this "laziness" through a simple feedback process: if people don't understand me when I talk, then, then I am being too lazy and need to pronounce better (or at least differently) until people understand me, and then stick with that. Finding that delicate balance point is a skill that takes years to hone.

 

Native Chinese speakers know when it's OK to ignore tones, etc, and when it's not OK. I find all this fascinating and yet I know that having an understanding of the underlying theory is useless because when we speak we don't have much time to think: Phonetic simplification must be the product of habit.

[Demonic_Duck]

I've never been a devoted student, so I resort to more organic methods when it comes to language acquisition, such as watching a film several times and looking up every word I don't understand.

 

That sounds like studying to me! Anyway, as with any skill, the more you practice, the better you'll get. Consuming films and other audio input will definitely help a huge amount, it just takes time.

[MariaMaria]

Thanks for your response, Manuel.

 

It's nice that you got some great personalized advice from many people.

 

As for your program... really, I think it is very wonderful. Intuitive to understand, easy to use, fast to install, portable and works perfectly on every system I use, and the IME feature is a very nice detail to add. The only problem is more of a funny thing is that we very often use the key combination "s-d-f" keys when typing in other languages, so it took me a while to realize what was happening and change the default on/off switch . So in summary, the program has very capably served its purpose in my Chinese studies. Thank you very much :)

[xiaojiang216]

Hi Manuel,

Your post made me think of my trip to the nearby park here the other day. I saw an elderly man reading (more like singing) a tattered book aloud, and was very curious about what he was reading. When he got to a stopping point, I sat down beside him on the bench and started a conversation. He is from a village outside of Wuhan, and doesn't speak Mandarin, so I had trouble understanding him.

 

When I could decipher a few key words but not the entire sentence, I would try to clarify which words he said ("Was that 办事的办 or 班级的班? Oh, 伙伴的伴? No, I don't have a partner here with me in China.") After talking for an hour or so, I started to feel like we were communicating more freely. Anyway, I guess that is a long-winded way of saying, "maybe trying to talk to more people who don't speak standard (or any) Mandarin!"

Also, I've always found it funny when a coworker says something to another coworker, and I can understand it very clearly. The other coworker is like, "what?!?" and has her repeat it several times. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "gee, even I understood what she said!" But other times, one coworker will mumble something that I completely did not catch, while the other coworker understands without a problem   

P.S.: Sorry, I feel like I could have explained all of that much more clearly. Maybe it's time to click "Post"