Guest MrFleming007 Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:16 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:16 AM Hello All! I've had an item in my possesion for a couple years now that some family brought back from a vacation in china. There are 4 symbols on it that are supposedly the date the object was made, and I have, as of yet, been unable to translate them. I was wondering if anybody here would be able to help. Here is a picture of the symbols: and here is the link to the full size image http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid91/p594fc2f524748777cd1816a5a1bbb46c/fa5c68ae.jpg.orig.jpg Thank you so much in advance to anybody that can help me solve this small mystery! -Owen Quote
pazu Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:37 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:37 AM This one is easy, 光緒二年 (Guang1xu4 Er Nian) The second year of the Guangxu Reign (of Qing Dynasty), ie. 1876 ACE. Quote
roddy Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:42 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 02:42 AM Easy for some . . . Roddy Quote
Guest MrFleming007 Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:14 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:14 AM Thank you so much! I wasn't expecting a reply so fast! If its not too much trouble, could I get a couple more images translated? The object your looking at is a bronze walking cane. The cane is covered with literally hundreds of symbols that are supposedly a story. These pictures just show the most dominate symbols on the cane. Thank you again for all your help! Thats all the pictures I have for right now. If anybody would like to see the entire object, let me know. I'll try to get some nice pictures. Thank you again! -Owen Quote
skylee Posted December 8, 2003 at 07:29 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 07:29 AM The first one is "shou" 壽, meaning longevity. The second one is "fu" 福, meaning good fortune, blessing, happiness. The third one is "壽比南山千古見 , 福如東海萬萬年", generally wishing for long life and good luck. "壽比南山" means life as long as the southern mountains. "福如東海" means good fortune as much as the east seas. "萬萬年" means ten thousand and ten thousand years. "千古見" - I am not sure how to translate this. Personally I don't think the couplet is well written. "千古" is often used at funerals. Quote
Guest MrFleming007 Posted December 8, 2003 at 08:12 AM Report Posted December 8, 2003 at 08:12 AM "千古見" - I am not sure how to translate this. Personally I don't think the couplet is well written. "千古" is often used at funerals. Some further insight into the cane may help with this translation. The cane seperates into two halves, revealing a hidden knife about 45 cm in length. -Owen Quote
pazu Posted December 9, 2003 at 10:23 AM Report Posted December 9, 2003 at 10:23 AM Easy for some . . .Roddy Oh Roddy, sorry if I sounded arrogant but what I wanted to say in my previous post was that the characters were so clear and thus could be translated without any speculation. Quote
pazu Posted December 9, 2003 at 10:40 AM Report Posted December 9, 2003 at 10:40 AM "壽比南山千古見 , 福如東海萬萬年" was written in Simplified Chinese (i.e. 寿比南山千古见 , 福如东海万万年) which looks extremely bad in calligraphy, and seems like the couplet was very bad written too, almost everything written in couplets (called 對聯 in Chinese) should be parallel, so: The pairing of 寿比南山 and 福如东海 is acceptable, but 千古见 vs 万万年 isn't okay. And 千古 means something like "in the past milleniums", but as Skylee said, it's almost exlusively for funeral! My grandpa would be very angry (at me and my Chinese level) if I wrote something like this for his birthday! 千古 is usually used in, e.g. 母儀千古 for the funerals of married women with sons, or 一朝千古 for men... almost all combinations of 千古 I could think of now, are for funerals only! Fleming, you know many souvenir shops in China sold shit only, I would think you have, sad to say, bought one. Quote
holyman Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:47 PM Report Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:47 PM me think its ok. 千古 probably means a thousand generations. in old china, 70yrs old is called '古稀之年'（means 'age that is rarely seen in the past'）, 千古 is a thousand times of 70 yrs old. 母儀千古 means 'she can be the role model of mothers for a thousand generations. 'you shall live as long as the southern mountains that can be seen for a thousand generations'. 'your luck/happiness will be as much as the eastern ocean that last a billion years'. 千古 is still used in many other occasions. 千古罪人 sinner of a thousand generations 千古流芳 fragrance that last a thousand generations(usually for historical heros, good deeds or virteous ppl) 千古奇文 exceptionally good writing in a thousand generations 千古奇闻 the funniest/most absurd incident in a thousand generations. Quote
roddy Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:50 PM Report Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:50 PM Oh Roddy, sorry if I sounded arrogant Not at all, I was just whining. Only 45,439 characters to learn . . . Roddy Quote
holyman Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:56 PM Report Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:56 PM the calligraphy is ok, esp the 寿比南山千古见 , 福如东海万万年. but of course the writings were carved using a machine, not hand made. the writings were choosen and printed from standard 'model fonts' then carved with a machine, so that makes it an ok piece of souvenir but with no artistic value. the writings below the 2 dominating characters '福'(happiness) and '壽'(age/longevity) are a hundred different forms of these 2 characters, namely '百福图'(picture of a hundred happiness) and '百寿图'(picture of a hundred longevity). Quote
pazu Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:33 AM Report Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:33 AM me think its ok. 千古 probably means a thousand generations. in old china' date=' 70yrs old is called '古稀之年'（means 'age that is rarely seen in the past'）, 千古 is a thousand times of 70 yrs old. 母儀千古 means 'she can be the role model of mothers for a thousand generations. 'you shall live as long as the southern mountains that can be seen for a thousand generations'. 'your luck/happiness will be as much as the eastern ocean that last a billion years'. 千古 is still used in many other occasions. 千古罪人 sinner of a thousand generations 千古流芳 fragrance that last a thousand generations(usually for historical heros, good deeds or virteous ppl) 千古奇文 exceptionally good writing in a thousand generations 千古奇闻 the funniest/most absurd incident in a thousand generations.[/quote'] But 母儀千古 is mostly (or only!) used in a mother's funeral, never would anyone write a card to their mom for birthday or Mother's Day and said, "you're a model of all mothers, you're 母儀千古!~~~" this sounds just too funny, probably a joke, or an implication that the son wanted his mother died. And it's the same for 千古流芳, that for funeral only. I think there're always some expressions in every language that you can't translate them literally because there're some implications of the wordings, 千古 is one of them, just like you can't translate 宣傳 as "propaganda" because it has some negative implications. Oh, but 中共中央宣傳部 has been honest enough to call themselves "Propaganda Department of the CPC Central Committee", well suit them jobs! Another example is 懿範長存 (or anything ended with 長存, which literally means "long lasting"), 懿 can be used in other occasions which means "good", but 懿範 (which means "good model of women") can only be used in funeral. A little bit off-topic, I remember a few years ago there was a Hong Kong lady who was one of the candidates in some elections (for the Legco?) and because the second word of her name was "懿", she did put a slogan and said "懿範長存", which made some of the "Oddly Enough" news of Hong Kong. Quote
skylee Posted December 10, 2003 at 03:15 AM Report Posted December 10, 2003 at 03:15 AM Same as in other languages, some Chinese words/sayings have an implicit negative/derogatory connotation. What immediately comes to my mind is "罄竹難書" - literally "hard to write down all of it even if all the bamboo is used up" (bamboo scrolls for writing in ancient times), meaning too much to record. But you don't use this saying on good deeds. "千古" is usually used at funerals. But of course you can use it in "千古佳話" etc. Quote
holyman Posted December 10, 2003 at 03:22 AM Report Posted December 10, 2003 at 03:22 AM its a term to indicate great length of time so depends on what phrases goes with 千古. positive phrases gives u positive meanings and negative ones give u negative meanings. 千古绝唱 千古之谜 千古风流人物 文章千古事，得失寸心知。 懿 is a description solely for female only. it is often used in 谥号(a title given to significant ppl after they die. remember, after, not before, and usually its a brief comment on his life/character/works) so using that will remind ppl of the dead. but its a compliment word. Quote
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