How to tell people off?

[陳德聰]

不打表就不去了 and mean it.

[imron]

The problem is there are situations when it will literally cost the taxi driver money if they don't get the return fare also.  The price of the taxi meters is typically fixed by the local government and often doesn't take in to account rises in the cost of petrol and maintenance.

 

I've had a situation where a taxi in a small town wouldn't take me to the airport (maybe a 45 minute trip) unless I also paid the return fare because the chance of the driver picking up a return fare to the town was basically non-existent.  This wasn't a case of rip-off the foreigner either, it was just a reflection of the economics of the situation.

 

If you find a whole bunch of taxi drivers all saying the same thing no matter how hard you are bargaining, it's a possible indicator that this is the case.

 

You can say 不打表就不去了 and mean it, but it won't change anything because going by the meter is simply not worth the cost.

[anonymoose]

I've had a situation where a taxi in a small town wouldn't take me to the airport (maybe a 45 minute trip) unless I also paid the return fare because the chance of the driver picking up a return fare to the town was basically non-existent.

 

Or the driver did pick up a return passenger and got the fare back twice. Old trick.

[imron]

I'm reasonably confident that this wasn't the case in that situation, and in situations where it's likely to happen the taxi driver is less likely to insist on double fare.

 

It comes down to gauging the situation, but if all taxi drivers in a given area are all giving the same lower-bound for a fare and are all walking away from anything lower rather than taking the trip then there's a good chance you need to adjust your expectations.

[Demonic_Duck]

Re 3) I think 请打表 may be a more common way of saying "please turn on the taxi metre".

I've heard “计价器” before from a native (though admittedly that was in the context of asking "how do you say taxi meter?"), so I assume it'd be understood, but you may well be right that “打表” is more common/colloquial.

[tysond]

The taxi driver situation improved enormously in Beijing after they put the fares up.  So I do believe the profit motive is important.  

 

The taxi booking apps have exacerbated the situation by creating a more fluid market for those with a bit more cash.  

I don't mind paying 5 or 10 above the fare if it's raining or whatever.   But I often succeed in booking without any tip.

 

In other cities in China, I have found it hard to get the metered fare, especially near tourist areas. 

Actually even in Beijing there are areas that are basically no-go areas for legal taxis, and (apparently) the illegal taxis are greasing the wheels to ensure they are able to operate near the forbidden city with impunity.

Near my office they operate a taxi queue that is always overcharging the foreigners.  But you can go 50m down the road and flag down taxis who go by meter.  Each driver has their own preference on how to make money - the guys that overcharge are often waiting for hours, smoking and talking with their friends, waiting to get a big score.  The guys you flag down are continually working.

 

That said, I keep a firm and polite approach.  I used to dream about swearing and criticizing people in Chinese, but now usually draw a firm line between complaining, putting pressure and then backing off and asking for help.   Having a smile and flexibility on a small tip can be more productive than yelling.

[Lu]

In case of line-jumping, I've had good results with just pointing out in neutral tone that there's a line and it starts over there. In case of taxis, yeah, just practice zen acceptance. (Sure, in many areas the situation sucks for drivers too, but they could at least be polite about it instead of gleefully taking advantage of the shortage.)

[Silent]

 

EVen if i would have gained nothing in that situation I would have liked being able to tell him to go to hell.

Why don't you? I do it often, even if there seems to be no real alternative. Oftentimes they will come after you and agree on a reasonable price. For them it's a matter of making the more or less usual amount or making no money.

 

 

If you find a whole bunch of taxi drivers all saying the same thing no matter how hard you are bargaining, it's a possible indicator that this is the case.

Yes, it's a possible indicator that the fare is real, but it's also a possible indicator that they've agreed on overcharging foreigners. If one driver decides he's willing to take the foreigner for a less excessive rate he will have a problem with the others which even may get physical. Seen this happen on several occasions. In the end it's a matter of gauging the situation and deciding what it's worth to you. If you want to go somewhere urgently no matter what, you may need to pay the excessive rate. If you've time to play the game and see the entertainment value you can take the time and play.

 

It's a negotiation, which can be time consuming and annoying, specially as you have often a weak position. As a foreigner you're perceived as rich, if you seem in a hurry it gets even worse. But then negotiating can be very entertaining too if you're not in a hurry, specially if they fall in their own trap.

[grawrt]

Thanks everyone! I'll try and assert myself next time, while also remaining calm.

 

Somehow I don't believe that these taxi drivers were just scrapping by. They were all standing around just chatting with eachother and smoking. They were also in a prime area, I had just gotten off a sleeper bus with others (plus more buses woulds top there), and the public buses stopped at that time. The only way to get to the next destination is by car. Also I suspect the driver had a deal with these cab drivers because as soon as we stopped he asked us where we were going and led us to the mob of drivers. Plus, the price they originally gave me (before I brought them down) was more than the ride I got ripped off for in Kunming, and that ride was an hour long so atleast I could justify it somewhat. Afterwards the exact price was just around the same price. Plus the next destination was an airport. There are always people needing rides there. I'm sure he made his money and probably more by overcharging the person leaving the flight with the same excuse.

 

I know taxi driver don't make much but I really doubt this was the case in this instance.

[roddy]

"They were all standing around just chatting with each other and smoking."

I realise it's not always possible, but if it's at all feasible in this kind of situation, walk a block and flag down a passing taxi. But in the circumstances you describe, the whole deck is stacked against you. 

[grawrt]

Yeah roddy, we ended up doing that, and walked about two blocks. The price got reduced slightly but not by much. I think the taxis in that whole area were aware of the reached agreement on price and the ones that offered lower prices knew they didn't have to go that low.

[Mouseneb]

Not being able to effectively communicate just makes all the petty annoyances and culture differences seem that much worse. I know those who are advising not too say anything or refusing to help explain how to express annoyance or anger have only the best intentions, but sometimes just being able to say how you feel is so incredibly useful, and not being able to results in even worse outcomes. People who end up screaming obscenities in their native language or punching someone or giving up on living here entirely because the daily frustrations were just too much to bear, especially when they had no voice to say no, this is not ok, this is too much, please don't do THAT you are driving me crazy.

Personally I feel pretty strongly that everyone should have a voice, have a choice to say how they feel. Taking that away is effectively censorship, even when it's done with the best intentions of helping someone to not be rude or insensitive or say something that is useless to say. It can be worthwhile to learn those lessons for yourself, oh, THIS is how people respond when I say that, hmmm ok well maybe I'll try another way next time. Learned something new.

It's good, I think, to warn people, hey, if you say what you want to say people might find it rude or get angry or what what, but then go ahead and tell them how to say what they want to say, if you can. It's their life, their words, their choice.

[Michaelyus]

I'm surprised 「素质!」 muttered not-quite-sotto voce with one of those about-to-spit oral gestures hasn't featured yet (LanguageLog link).

 

I confess I've not (yet) used it in the wild, but I'm not / don't look like an 阿姨 of any kind... 

 

I'd liken it to "People these days" or "Someone needs some manners!" in British English, or even "how uncultured" would appear in Dickens or Hardy: I find there's a slight undercurrent of something akin to nationalism embedded in the concept of 素质, which moves it closer to those ideals from the Victorian era. E.g. coverage of this 低素质 behaviour on Singapore Airlines in 2013.

 

Or maybe I'm just spoiling for a fight!