How much does the pollution bother you in China?

[Johnny20270]

Anyone in Beijing will have noticed the pollution level today and yesterday. I am just new here but I can feel myself being chocked up with the level of pollution. Not used to it.

 

Looking at the US embassy "Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index Data" I see it is around the 400 mark where I live. This corresponds to their highest category on their Hazardous scale.

 

Just wondering for you long timers here in China, how much does this bother you? I must admit I could never live in this country long term for life basically because of this one primary reason. Its a shame as other negative factors,  such as the crowds I can handle but I think to myself, why slowly kill yourself if you have a choice?

 

Not meaning for this to turn into a slagging off China topic! I knew the pollution was bad before I made the choice to come before I came here, but I want to gauge what the view is from people who have choices to live elsewhere in the world

 

It is a real shame actually that they don't handle this issue with more consideration for their people. 

[ChTTay]

On an everyday basis, the pollution doesn't bother me. I wear a decent mask when I'm out and about and I have a couple of air purifiers when I'm at home.

 

Of course, in the long term I think ... this definitely isn't a good thing to have in your life.

 

My first year in China I lived in a place with no noticable pollution. Sunsets everyday. You don't appreciate it until it's gone.

[Lu]

It wasn't really a factor in my decision to leave, but the clean air was definitely a source of pleasure once I got home. On most days in Beijing it was visibly bad, but otherwise it didn't bother me. Only during the 'airpocalypse' in January 2013 did it really depress me, but at that time I could just smell it and feel it the minute I set foot outdoors.

It is a real shame actually that they don't handle this issue with more consideration for their people.

This is not really true, though. Well, partly. But the Chinese government is very much aware of the problem, and knows it bothers the people a lot more than freedom of the press or the fate of Liu Xia, so they do try to do something about it. China is doing a lot in the field of renewable energy, and most energy (renewable and non-renewable) is used on producing stuff that (Chinese) people make money off.

[Johnny20270]

This is not really true, though. Well, partly. But the Chinese government is very much aware of the problem, and knows it bothers the people a lot more than freedom of the press or the fate of Liu Xia, so they do try to do something about it. China is doing a lot in the field of renewable energy, and most energy (renewable and non-renewable) is used on producing stuff that (Chinese) people make money off. 

 

 

 

Well aware is one thing and doing something about it is another Lu!

 

I agree they have stepped up a bit which is should be recognized and a step in the right direction, ... but its a long long way from tackling the problem seriously. They don't put the same vigor into tackling their pollution issue as they do with promoting their economy. Given they are building coal fired power stations left right and center and won't tackle traffic issue seriously / factories waste seriously enough is testament to that. 

 

My view is their is just not enough political will to take the matter as seriously as they should. I am actually surprised as its an issue that affects all. Even the political elite, corrupt or not should have a vested interest in making lives better for their off-spring. 

[Angelina]

 

 

Even the political elite, corrupt or not should have a vested interest in making lives better for their off-spring. 

 

The off-spring of the political elite is well-settled somewhere outside of China. 

[Angelina]

http://www.ibtimes.com/vancouvers-skyrocketing-housing-prices-are-mainland-chinese-investors-blame-1510934

 

 

 

Vancouver, he added, has many appealing qualities for both foreign and domestic home buyers. “It is beautiful, clean, safe and has a very mild climate,” he noted. “As far as Asians are concerned, Vancouver is easily accessible from the Pacific Rim, more so than, say, Toronto or Montreal. Plus, Vancouver already has a large Asian community established, enabling friends and family from overseas to settle there.”

[kdavid]

I lived in China for eight years and just returned this past summer.

 

I still can't get over the level of visibility and bright, blue skies. Readjusting to clean air and fantastic weather was probably the biggest element of reverse culture shock.

 

It's certainly very grim in China.

[Lu]

I agree they have stepped up a bit which is should be recognized and a step in the right direction, ... but its a long long way from tackling the problem seriously. They don't put the same vigor into tackling their pollution issue as they do with promoting their economy. Given they are building coal fired power stations left right and center and won't tackle traffic issue seriously / factories waste seriously enough is testament to that.

My view is their is just not enough political will to take the matter as seriously as they should.

They are taking the problem seriously, and have for years now. I haven't followed developments very closely so do check, but: biggest producer of (afforable) solar panels, building of huge wind turbine fields, committed to relative reducing of emissions, capping the number of cars in several big cities, reducing the number of cars on the road, taking measures to improve gasoline quality (which will result in less dirty car exhaust)... Not to say that there isn't still a lot of work to do in China, but they are taking it seriously and taking action. Meanwhile, in some other parts of the world people aren't even convinced that the world has a carbon problem in the first place.

But yeah, one way to improve this is to make local officials more accountable for the environment of their localities. Currently, it's still all about economic growth and social stability, not environment, so it's not strange that local officials often turn a blind eye to big polluters.

[gato]

China is also building many nuclear power plants and will likely to be world's biggest user of nuclear power in the near future, which will help cut on the smog, though we will have to watch out for plant safety.

The government has just announced that coal usage, which is responsible for much of the smog, will peak in 2020.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/21/business/energy-environment/china-to-place-limit-on-coal-use-in-2020.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

In Step to Lower Carbon Emissions, China Will Place a Limit on Coal Use in 2020

The State Council, China’s cabinet, released details of an energy strategy late Wednesday that includes capping coal consumption at 4.2 billion tons in 2020 and having coal be no more than 62 percent of the primary energy mix by that year.

[Kobo-Daishi]

Also, the use of natural gas for cooking and heating homes will also lessen dependence on coal.

 

The troubles with Russia over Ukraine has forced the Russians to make gas concessions that they wouldn't have otherwise made. This has produced a glut of cheap natural gas on the world market for China to purchase.

 

Russia already signed a deal to supply natural gas to China a while back and are eager to finalize a second one. The US is also trying to sell excess natural gas.

 

Here are two articles.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/pikeresearch/2014/05/30/russia-china-gas-deal-narrows-window-for-u-s-exports/ A May 30, 2014 Forbes magazine article titled "Russia-China Gas Deal Narrows Window for U.S. Exports".

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2014/1119/How-Russia-could-derail-US-natural-gas-exports A November 19, 2014 Christian Science Monitor article from yesterday titled "How Russia could derail US natural gas exports".

 

It's all of a sudden become a buyers' market which benefits the Chinese greatly in moving to cleaner fuels.

 

Kobo.

[Johnny20270]

 I still can't get over the level of visibility and bright, blue skies. Readjusting to clean air and fantastic weather was probably the biggest element of reverse culture shock.

 

If you're from California, that must been a huge shock!.   I love California, (especially SFO upwards) .. well, ..... er, ... except LA Skiing, forests, sun, wine, beach nature parks all within reach, ... and not ruined by some bloke yelling with a megaphone to his group   

[Angelina]

 

 

China is also building many nuclear power plants and will likely to be world's biggest user of nuclear power in the near future, which will help cut on the smog, though we will have to watch out for plant safety.

 

Not necessarily. Fusion power would be safe IF it could be implemented. I know someone who was doing research at my Chinese uni and they are investing a lot of money in fusion. There was even a famous Chinese American physicist from California helping them out.

 

Yet, there are many plants being build in China that will use nuclear fission. If we know that the USSR and even the French Government lied to their citizens when the Chernobyl disaster happened, who knows what will or has already happened in China. They are not exactly the most transparent government. Maybe you are right after all. Chernobyl radiation can still be found in Europe. 

[emmanuel]

 

Yet, there are many plants being build in China that will use nuclear fission. If we know that the USSR and even the French Government lied to their citizens when the Chernobyl disaster happened, who knows what will or has already happened in China. They are not exactly the most transparent government. Maybe you are right after all. Chernobyl radiation can still be found in Europe.

Oh, come on. We live in century of Internet. Nobody is able to hide such thing as explosion of nuclear station even in China.

[Angelina]

You mean the censored Chinese Internet? 

 

Joking, you are right. It probably won't be like that in this age.

[Johnny20270]

That's the advantage of satellites and ground monitoring stations. Keeps track of what countries like the mischievous Iranian's are up to

[Angelina]

Oh, is it the Iranians that are mischievous or the Israelis or evil Russians? 

 

Why don't people work together? 

 

Fusion power is a good idea

 

Scientists have built devices able to produce temperatures more than ten times higher than those in the sun. To reach these temperatures there must first be powerful heating, and thermal losses must be minimised by keeping the hot fuel particles away from the walls of the container. This is achieved by creating a magnetic “cage” made by strong magnetic fields which prevent the particles from escaping. For energy production this plasma has to be confined for a sufficiently long period for fusion to occur.

 

In fact, a fusion reaction is about four million times more energetic than a chemical reaction such as the burning of coal, oil or gas. While a 1,000 MW coal-fired power plant requires 2.7 million tons of coal per year, a fusion plant of the kind envisioned for the second half of this century will only require 250 kilos of fuel per year, half of it deuterium, half of it tritium.

In addition, fusion emits no pollution or greenhouse gases. Its major by-product is helium: an inert, non-toxic gas. There is no possibility of a "runaway" reaction because the conditions for fusion are precise—any alteration in these conditions and the plasma cools within seconds and the reaction stops. Fusion has the capacity to furnish large-scale quantities of energy, with a low burden of waste for future generations.

 

When we know we can produce temperatures more potent than of the Sun, why fight over coal or oil? Or choke on coal dust like it's 1899?

Why should we care about the latest agreement between Russia and China on Russian gas? Why waste our time on these issues?

 

 

Ангелина

[Johnny20270]

Oh, is it the Iranians that are mischievous or the Israelis or evil Russians? 

 

 

Yeah I agree that its not all black and white and lots of countries have a lot to answer for, ... but the fact is Ahmadinejad and other senior Iranians have repeatedly called for Israel to be wiped off the map. I don't recall other governments saying a country and all its citizens should be exterminated. 

 

 

When we know we can produce temperatures more potent than of the Sun, why fight over coal or oil?

 

 

Because Nuclear reactors use Nuclear Fission, not fusion. We can control (sort of) Nuclear Fission, but not Fusion (i.e. like the Sun, a H-bomb). Controlling Nuclear Fusion is the holy grail of Nuclear physics and labs, governments have been pouring billions into that for near 60 years now. Lockhead said they can build one within 10years but lots are seeing it as a publicity stunt. Labs are making progress but still a long way off and havent solved the fundamental problems The problem is nuclear fusion requires temperatures 5 times hotter than the sun, high pressure which we can't achieve for the desirable type of atoms, and they require more input energy than give out energy so inefficient. Also Nuclear Fusion reactor still produce reactive material but lot safer

 

We shall see

 

(A H bomb uses a fision bomb inside to create a fusion reaction, we can't produce the Fusion bomb in one step)

[Angelina]

 

 

Also Nuclear Fusion reactor still produce reactive material but lot safe

 

That's my point. I hope people can manage to control fusion and build rectors to harnes the energy.

 

China will probably reduce air pollution if they use more nuclear power. They are building a lot of reactors, but fission is not safe. Might be even worse for us then pollution problems now. 

[ablindwatchmaker]

When I was in an intensive Chinese program in Beijing, the pollution problem was the most discussed topic in class. Like the other posters said, they are trying very hard and are very aware, but the CCP relies on steady economic growth to keep the population happy.and until renewables reach a certain price point, the pollution is there to stay. That being said, I think China will actually solve he problem and it will expose the US for all of its corruption over the many years with respect to alternative energy development.

[Takeshi]

I'm not even living in Beijing area, I'm in Hong Kong and I actually find the pollution quite bad. I'm not sure why, all the last times I've been in China (SYSU, HKU) I hadn't ever noticed pollution at all, even when I went out downtown. But now I get bothered by pollution whenever I leave the university.

 

I dunno if I'm getting old, the pollution has gotten worse, living in an area with relatively clean air is spoiling me, or NT/Kowloon is more polluted than HK Island or Guangzhou.

 

I live in the CUHK campus which has relatively clean air compared to the surroundings. I am totally fine on campus, but if I go to Mong Kok, Sha Tin (not that I ever actually walk outside in Sha Tin ), or even sometimes in Tai Po Hui I find the pollution unpleasant (but not unbearable). (Some parts of Tai Po, like closer to the waterfront park are obviously fine though.) Mong Kok is really the killer though.

 

As of now, I don't mind these "pollution experiences" being like a thing I have to deal with whenever I go out, but if I had to live in such a place every day it would suck.