就 vs 才 when used with time

[Lafayette]

I know this must be a very commonly asked question, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how the meaning of a sentence changes based on whether 就 or 才 is placed before or after the time.

 

Could someone tell me if my understanding of the following uses of 才 and 就 are correct?

 

我九点才起床。 - It was already 9 when I woke up.

我起床的时候才九点。 - When I woke up, it was only 9.

 

我九点就起床了。- It was only 9 when I woke up.

我起床的时候就九点了。- When I woke up, it was already 9.

 

多谢！

[Jingqin]

that's right   0.0

[vera_zxl]

Hi Lafayette, they are all correct. 

 

1. If 才 and 就 are placed before a verb, 才 means 'already' and implies 'late',  就 implies 'just' 'early’ ‘less'.

我九点才起床。 - It was already 9 when I woke up. (9 is late for getting up.)

我九点就起床了。- It was only 9 when I woke up. (9 is early for getting up)

 

2. when 才 is placed before a time, it's a different story. It means 'only'.

我起床的时候才九点。 - When I woke up, it was only 9.

 

3. When 就 is placed before a time, it’s always followed by 了. 就……了。It means 'already' and implies 'late'.

我起床的时候就九点了。- When I woke up, it was already 9.

 

I think the key point is you need to be careful where ‘就' and '才' are placed. It means different before a verb or a time.

[陳德聰]

I think... The English translations that are being given for these sentences are what are messing you up.

 

我九点才起床。 - It was already 9 when I woke up. I didn't get up until 9. (this is later than I/one would normally be expected to get up)

我九点就起床了。- It was only 9 when I woke up. I got up as soon as it was 9. / I was up at 9. / I got up at 9. (this time is earlier or on time for some expected future activity)

 

我起床的时候才九点。 - When I woke up, it was only 9. Correct. (9 is considered early, it was "only" 9.)

我起床的时候就九点了。- When I woke up, it was already 9. Correct. (9 is considered marginally later than expected, "already" 9)

 

Here I think it's important like in #3 to distinguish that there are two senses going on here. You paired them together rather than separating them, but 就 vs 才 when it comes to speaking about the sequence of events is different from 就 vs 才 when talking about times.

 

When talking about time, we also use 都 to express "already", e.g. 都九點了 "It's already 9 (this is later than expected)".

[Altair]

I agree with the previous explanation.  You can also, however, see the same thread of meaning regardless of the placement of 就 or 才.

 

就 implies that things are moving smoothly, quickly, and in a closely connected way.  When used in connection with time, often the implication is that things are early.

 

才 implies that things are moving reluctantly, slowly, and in a disconnected way.  When used in connection with time, often the implication is that things are late.

 

The key is understanding what "things" are being referred to, since there are actually two distinct time references in the sentences: clock time and the time of getting up.  To understand which is being referenced, you must take into account the "topic-comment" structure of Chinese and identify the comment.

 

 

1.我九点才起床。My getting up was reluctant and slow.  I didn't get up until it was already nine.  It was already nine, when I got up.  Here the comment is about the time of getting up.

 

2. 我起床的时候才九点。 Time was moving reluctantly and slowly.  I got up with no problem, but the clock hands seemed to have moved slowly, only registering 9 o'clock.  It was only nine when I got up.  Here the comment is about clock time.

 

3. 我九点就起床了。 My getting up went smoothly and quickly.  I got up and it was only nine, not any later.  Here the comment is about the time of getting up and how early it was.

 

4. 我起床的时候就九点了。 Time was moving smoothly and quickly.  I got up, and it was already nine.  It was already nine when I got up.  The comment is about clock time and how quickly it seemed to move.

 

 

When 就 is placed before a time, it’s always followed by 了. 就……了。

 

Another way to understand the apparent inconsistency in the use of 了 is to compare the tenses in the English sentences I have used below.

 

我九点才起床。 It was nine o'clock, and I was only just getting up.

 

我九点就起床了。 It was nine o'clock, and I had already gotten up.

 

In the first case, you will tend to want to stress that the activity hadn't even begun at the reference time, which would preclude using 了.  In the second case, you will want to stress that the entire activity was completed by the reference time, which would require using 了.

[Lafayette]

Thanks for all the very helpful replies! Altair, I'm especially finding your method of identifying the "comment" very useful in interpreting these differences. My teacher said that we'll just have to memorize the different meanings, but I think I'll stick with your way.