Marrying a black guy - mum won't accept - Advice?

[Tingting27]

Hi all i'm very new to this forum, but hoping I can get some advice on here! Here's a little background information on me: (sorry it's a bit long!)

I'm 26 yrs old, born and bred in the UK, my parents are originally from Hong Kong and I still have family there who I see every few years or so. I'm the oldest of 3 kids (1 sis & 1 bro) and my immediate family are not very close to each other - I'm pretty close to my sister as she's only 3 years younger then me. My brother is only 12 so still quite young and he likes to hang out with me, but I've never in my whole life been close to parents ever! My dads ok and tries every now and then with his kids, but my mum has never taken much interest in any of us, particularly me.

She runs a takeaway and has done ever since I was born so for 26 years, every night except monday nights she was never home and for some reason we've never gotten on. I wouldn't say we have personality clashes, but she's always shown clear favouritism to my sister which I guess I always resented as I always compared to as the short one, the fat one, the dumb one etc., and when my brother came along, he was immediately favoured by both my parents.

Nevertheless we never spoke much, I have very little memories of her when i was young, usually my dad would take me and my sister places and it'd just be the 3 of us and because of this, I have to admit, I've never liked her. She would never speak to me on her days off or spend time to get to know me and really I've grown up without that mother figure.

My mum believes in hard work and making money and not much else, she doesn't have many friends, I've never seen her or my dad go out together alone, she doesn't believe in anything that involves 'wasting money' i.e birthdays, she is pretty too faced and I always overhear her bitching about everybody including me and my siblings and even my dad to some mystery person on the phone (I'm guessing it's an old school friend from HK) , we rarely spend time together as a whole family - even when we go to HK we never travel together and my parents definitely don't take us anywhere (they go off to China, separately and me and my sis are left to please ourselves)

Anyway fast forward to 2014 ...

I've been with my boyfriend, who is British Black (originally from Nigeria), who I met at uni, for nearly 4 years. We dated at uni for a few months and ended it then we got back together a year and a bit later and we've been together ever since. I love him very much and we have been talking a lot recently about our future together and we plan on getting married soon.

His family are wonderful and treat me like one of their own and my sister and brother have met him and like him too. He is a very respectable guy with a great job and he has high ambitions and even wants us to move to HK when we start a family.

Not being close to my parents, I never mentioned that I even had a boyfriend never mind that he was black as I knew what their reaction would be, but our relationship has obviously gotten to a point where we can't hide it any longer from my parents. I told my mum last year that I had a boyfriend and didn't say anything else, however she immediately assumed he was black and started telling me to end it immediately.

A few weeks went by with nothing said and all of a sudden, she confronted me again and it ended with me in tears, but it was left at that. She said she hadn't told my dad so he didn't know anything, but this is obviously a lie as I know she bitched to my dad. She then referred to him from this point onwards as 'my friend'.

Then in April this year, she calls me up at work accusing me of getting secretly married to him, after some junk mail came in the post that wasn't even addressed to me! She thought he was getting his post sent to our house! She then went on about how I was being so shameful, a disgrace, saying I was breaking her heart, causing her embarrassment and told me not to do anything stupid! She then went on about how she couldn't bare to tell the rest of our family in HK (who all know about my boyfriend anyway as they all have Facebook apart from her!) and that the news of a black guy would shock my grandad so badly he would have a heart attack and die and then it would be all my fault he died and then she begged me not to kill her only parent! I mean it was ridiculous the stuff she was saying! This went on with her making more outlandish statements and ended with me crying again and I said I never wanted to speak to her again if she was going to talk to me like that.

So we've actually not spoken since April this year (8 months now) as she refuses to apologise to me. She even went further and told my sister who also told her to apologise to me by saying that I should be the one apologising to her even though I never said anything. Its awkward as its put my sis, bro and dad in the middle between us. For example if I have to tell her something I have to tell my dad or brother to tell her for me.

She also started bitching about me to other family members like my dads mum, who she also never liked, that I was dating a black guy. My brother overheard her say to my grandma that one day I would be left heartbroken because he would rob me and leave me, and that I would be left with a baby that colour and that he was only dating me so he could rob our house etc. (I live in Leeds, my boyfriend lives in Essex)

Even if me and my boyfriend were to break up for whatever other reason, which is unlikely, I could still never speak to my mum or forgive her for the way shes treated me. My dad has stayed well out of this whole thing saying it's just us women being women, while none of my other family members have turned their back on me, my aunts and uncles are still great and my cousins have always said my mums always got a problem with everyone! (My mum also hasn't spoken to her only sister i.e my favourite aunty in over 2 years)

And all this is over a guy who she hasn't met, hasn't spoken to ever, hasn't seen a picture of or even knows his name! All this is based on the only information she has about him, which is that he is black.

I would love to hear from anybody who has been in the same boat as me, as in was dating a black person and how their family accepted it? Is there any advice that can help me in this situation?

- the only thing my boyfriend and friends have said is that although it's hard and painful to accept, over time my mum will just move on and so will I. Like I said although we don't like each other (she even told me severally times when I was younger that she didn't like me) I think it would break my heart if she wouldn't come to my wedding as that would tell me she definitely wants nothing to do with me anymore.

Sorry this has been so long! I've been sitting on this situation for months!!

[Demonic_Duck]

Wow, that's heavy. I have zero experience in that area (being blessed with eminently reasonable parents), so I can't really give any solid advice, sorry. Maybe it would help for your mum to actually meet the guy, although that might be a bit difficult to engineer if she doesn't want to, not to mention the possibility it could backfire somehow... Anyway, I hope everything works out for you and your fiancé.

[geraldc]

Try this facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/britishbornchinese/

 

If worried about confidentiality. You can just set up a dummy facebook account and ask to join, or just create a fake facebook profile, let me know, and I'll add you to the group.

 

There's quite of few members in the group married to different ethnicities, so if you ask there, they'll tell you how they managed to, or didn't get their families to accept their choices.

 

Chinese families always argue. If you dig deep enough, there's always sections feuding, money, land, choice of partner etc...

.

 

Good luck

 

Gerald

[Shelley]

Well I am sorry to hear your sad story.

 

It seems to me that you are in position where you will have to choose between your mother or your boyfriend as it doesn't sound like you have any other choice.

 

I have not had this type of experience, but I am of mixed race and have experienced the bad behavior some people exhibit.

 

There is no easy answer to your problem, and no amount of advice will change the fact the you have to decide what you want to do.

 

Who do you want spend the rest of your life with? If you never speak to your mother again how would you feel about it. This seems to me to be the things you need to think about. Almost all of the rest of things in your post have nothing to do with your decision.

 

Strip away all the unnecessary baggage and think clearly and simply about the choice you have to make - mother or boyfriend.

 

I cannot guarantee it but in my experience mothers do eventually come round to their daughter or sons choice in partners, once they see you really are happy and that he isn't going to do all the bad things she thinks will happen.

 

Mothers often think no one is good enough for their kids who ever they are.

 

Make your choice and then get on with life.

 

Don't fall into the same patterns as your mother, don't bitch and moan about your mother to other members of the family or friends.

 

Be a strong independent woman and go out in the world confident you have made the right choice and enjoy your life with your BF.

 

Hope it all goes well for you.

[Lu]

That's a shitty situation to be in, I'm so sorry.

Firstly, of course your mom is in the wrong here for dismissing your boyfriend before meeting him and for treating you so badly over dating him. It's perfectly right and normal for you to date a man you like and planning to marry him, whatever his colour. You probably know this already.

The main reason your mom won't hear of you dating a black man is clearly racism. You perhaps already know that for many Chinese, black people are 'less' than Asian or white people. Her opinion on this particular black man might change once she meets him and finds out he has a proper education & job, won't rob your house and won't leave you stranded with a brown baby.

Another thing is that she might be afraid of the unknown. You'll be Leaving Her for another family. She might still not approve if your boyfriend had been Hongkongnese, because it's Someone Else and she doesn't know him.

My parents are also extremely reasonable, and in addition not Chinese, so the following is just my own conjecture, but I think a big reason your mother acts like that to you (yell, threaten, cry) is that she has no emotional connection to you, doesn't really know how to handle her emotions herself, and doesn't know how to talk with you. This is, I think, something to keep in mind. She's upset because of your choice of partner, but instead of telling you this calmly, explaining her feelings, trying to understand your feelings etc, she cries and says you're killing her only parent. She probably doesn't really believe this, but it's the only way she can think of to tell you how seriously upset she is.

Given that, I'm not sure how to fix your problem, especially not in the short term. Perhaps you could try spending some time with your mother? Take her somewhere nice (and free), or better yet, help out in the restaurant. Perhaps you can think of a few things you appreciate about her and tell her that? Sounds like she is hard-working and wants you and your siblings to be succesfull, for example.

Or you could go nucleair and stop talking to her altogether. If you don't even like her, as you mention, that might be an option too. But then you also want to stop passing messages through your father and siblings. It's not really fair to put them in the middle.

Not especially for overseas Chinese or anything, but with lots of advice for people with difficult parents, is Captain Awkward.

Good luck, you deserve to be happy.

[gato]

My advice is to forget about your mom. Just ignore her. You are 26, a full adult, and she's never treated you like a proper daughter. It's time to accept that and move on. I highly doubt a meeting with your boyfriend will make things better.

It might be somewhat distressing in the short term, but will be good for you in the long term. Life isn't perfect. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Biology doesn't always equal family.

[renzhe]

Honestly sorry to hear about your situation. From your description, it doesn't sound like something that is likely to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction, and that is very sad.

Like Shelley, I think that it will come down to a difficult choice. Not just a choice between one person and the other, but a fundamental choice about how you want to live your life, who you want to spend your time with, and what your fundamental values in life are going to be. It does sound like your views on life are fundamentally different from your mother's, and this could spell further trouble down the road if you cave in now. You'll need to weigh both options, and imagine living the rest of your life with each of these choices.

Neither choice will be perfect, but it will have to be something you can live with and something you can be happy with.

[skylee]

OP, are you financially independent of your family? If so, get married to whoever you want and live the life you want. If not, become financially independent and do the same. An adult should be allowed to pursue his/her happiness.

As for your mother, it would be great if she is understanding. If she is not, you need not dwell on it. You have your life to live and she obviously does not want to share it in the way you want.

It is nothing special that family members don't get well along with one another. And parents usually cannot win when they fight with their adult children, unless the latter are dependent on the parents.

And at 26 years old you need not tell others that your mom did/does not love/ favour you. Those things should be left behind.

[Shelley]

"And at 26 years old you need not tell others that your mom did/does not love/ favour you. Those things should be left behind."

 

Very well put skylee, totally agree..

[Lu]

That sounds very logical, but I'm 33 and I'm still conciously happy that my mother loves me, never favoured one child over another and likes the partners that her children bring home. Those things don't cease to be important just because you become an adult. Children who don't feel loved by their parents often spend a lifetime trying to get their parents' appreciation. Of course they shouldn't waste energy on that, but it's not that easy.

[skylee]

I used to say similar things about my parents when I was 20+ until one day an older friend told me what I have said in #8. And it was so true. I was a grown up and there was no need to think (or complain) about that I was not my parents' favourite child. What a relief.

Just my personal view.

[Tianjin42]

Sounds very difficult.

I agree with the posters who are reminding you that it is your own life - this is of course true. But I'm aware that things are usually easier if you're on decent terms with your family.

I don't have anything else to add but I do want to let you know of one example. One BBC friend had a sibling who faced a situation similar to you. In that case the boyfriend was a British-born Indian. Both parents were against the relationship and actively opposed it.

It was a very difficult time for my friend's sister.

There was no one single remedy however after a long period the parents resolve did soften. The two eventually married and the parents attended the wedding and supported the couple. My friend's sister shouldn't have had to do this and the situation was far from ideal. However it did end well and the parents are now proud grandparents.

[anonymoose]

This is only my personal opinion, but...

 

Of course you should make your own decisions and live your life the way that you want to.

 

At the same time, I think you should try as much as possible to stay on speaking terms with your mother, even if you cannot agree on anything. What I mean by that is that if you don't enjoy speaking with her, then just keep contact at a low/tolerable level, but try not to end up at a complete stale mate (as you seem to currently be). I say this, because I think that in the long term, it will be more of an emotional burden to you if you haven't spoken to your mother, with associated feelings of having been wronged, guilt (even if you don't have anything to feel guilty about) and so on. I think it would be better than leaving these feelings to fester until one day it's too late, and then living with regret for the rest of your life.

[French]

Being a Chinese French, I can relate to some extent. I'm 30, so I am like OP, the 2nd generation of migrants. I've seen my share of relationships and the issues that come along with them. You name it : money, race, age, cross countries.

 

On the other hand, what OP described about the favoritism is real and quite obvious. That being said, you really should get over it. We had the chance to grow up in Europe and benefit from a different culture and perspective. We should use it at our advantage and acknowledge that our parents' customs are from another time. They were just repeating their accepted and successful model of upbringing.

I also often hear from others Chinese French the same critics about parents only concerned about working and providing for their families. While I don't know the situation of your family, this survivor instinct runs strong in the previous generation for a good reason. Most of them came in Europe illegally, they had to work hard to get where they are now.

 

That pattern : favorite child + hard working is extremely common for people with Chinese descent. It doesn't make us special or not for that matter. It is just how it was and it's up to us to not repeat this pattern if we wish so.

 

But mostly, I agree with Shelley when she said that your history shouldn't cloud your judgement. In my family, some female cousins have been in a similar situation as you. Depending on what you want, you have some options that have already been stated. From the end of your post which contrast a bit from the beginning of it, you seem to want to rekindle your relationship with your mother.

 

If that's what you want then this is my advice. It's not the best, can't guarantee it'll work. If there is no rush for you to get married, then just wait. Acknowledging our parents' vision of things come also with some advantages. Then again, I don't know the situation in your family nor their positions of certain matters, however in my community, people tend to start panicking when a woman is still single nearing 30 (35 for men), so I advised my first cousin to wait and after 3 years of waiting, their parents came round. Second cousin, same advice, just worked (my uncle and aunt just agreed to their relationship, future wedding last September). 3rd cousin, she said the hell with her parents' consent and went ahead.

 

In the meantime, I don't know how much time you're gonna need / sustain, try to rekindle your relationship with your mother and avoid your boyfriend as a subject. At first you're gonna need to bring it up once, try to ease up the subject and lighten the mood like it's just your boyfriend (for the moment, don't add the extra detail though), and you're focusing on your carrier right now. He's your companion or even use her own words, your "friend". Do not bring him up again unless your mother does it first.

[Johnny20270]

this happens everywhere. 

 

I have had this aswell. My parents gave me several serious talks about dating an Asian. My long time ex was a BBC. They did not want me dating her as they did not want yellow grandkids. I was 32!

 

But for me it wasn't up for debate nor discussion. I would not listen to this at all and told them if I have to make a choice I will choose my gf. It was very clear, they are wrong for judging someone purely by their race. My ex didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't have to apologizes for her genetic make up.

 

I will add thought that they did come round to her after a while. It was just the ignorance of other races and cultures, especially with people who have never travelled, mixed with other races.

 

Say it was a case that your bf is a loser (just making a point here) such as he won't get a job, treating you bad, then yes your mother is only doing what she believes is right and pre-warn you of things to come. But judging on race is wrong plain and simple. 

[陳德聰]

If you can find the strength to accept your mother as she is (racist and abusive), that may help. Feeling that she should be a certain way, or wishing that she would be a certain way... Those are all things that don't give enough credit to the reality of how she simply is.

 

You ultimately hold the power in terms of her ability to be a part of your life, and if she is not aware of that, maybe she needs to be.

As for interracial dating, my friend has actually started scouring Chinese language media for positive portrayals of Indian people and sending the newspaper clippings to her parents in an attempt to use their own narrow-mindedness against them, and it has actually been working. They're using his name when they refer to him now instead of just "佢".

[Angelina]

I don't believe in the concept of 'races' that much. You should be free to date and marry anyone you want. 

 

 

 

My mum believes in hard work and making money and not much else, she doesn't have many friends, I've never seen her or my dad go out together alone, she doesn't believe in anything that involves 'wasting money' i.e birthdays,

 

This is what you mother believes in. What if she does not accept him because she also believes in a stereotype that people of African descent are poor (or anything similar)? She definitely wants all the best for you. Why do you think she is working that hard?

 

If you think having her approval would make you feel better, you can try to explain her how you are going to start a family with him and this will be a stable relationship, finances included. 

 

Also, your biological mother does not have to be your mother figure. Don't worry that much about it. 

 

I am your age and can definitely understand you. I don't think I have ever dated outside of my race, because there is only one race. Hope it helps. There are certain cultural differences, yet the basis of all cultures is exactly the same. 

[Melanie1989]

This is really complicated, if i may state the blinding obvious. You have been given some very good advice and i don't have much to add, but i do want to say that i'm sorry you're going through this. 

 

Definitely think long and hard about what you're going to do and don't rush into everything. It does unfortunately come down to mom vs boyfriend. Usually i would be quick to recommend family but in this case, maybe not. I have never been in this situation, but i know what it's like to cut parents out of your life. It is so hard, no matter how "bad" in whatever way they might be. But, once enough time has passed and you've learned to accept you are actually doing the kindest thing all round by cutting her out, it is such a relief. My mom was extremely abusive and it took something as huge as me getting pregnant to find the strength to do this. Maybe your fiance is your strength? Now that you have found someone who actually does love you and puts you first, unlike your mother.

 

Someone else raised a good point by saying that you need to first some to terms with your mom being the way she is, and i completely agree. If she has made it quite clear that you're not her "favourite", then she's not much of a parent and you'd certainly not have anything to feel guilty about whatever you decide to do about her. You need to realise she isn't going to change. She might come around to your boyfriend being another race (which is the reason for not rushing into anything), but she will never be the mom you might want her to be. I promise you, if you are waiting around for her to apologise for always making you feel like a burden, or any less important than your siblings, sorry but it isn't going to happen. You will only be torturing yourself if you are waiting.

 

You are an adult and you don't need that kind of negativity in your life. Maybe you could get back in touch with her but don't mention all this. Keep it calm and casual and maybe gradually build up contact. But don't let her manipulate you or guilt you into anything. Helping out at her shop is a great idea, someone else said. Good luck.

[XuanWu]

Its really sad that your mother is a person with so many matters, but i have to say that is admirable that you did not inherit her flaws. That is remarkable.

 

If you are not planning to live in the same house with your mother and your husband, than why bother so much? Especially if you stay in England, who cares?

I understand that you would like your mothers approval but, thats the way she is.She will always find something bad to tell you.

Just accept her as it is and dont care about it.

There is a chance of soften her up, when you get a baby and she looks for her first time her first grandchildren(as you are the oldest one).

But, i am saying this for her, not for you.For her own good.You just keep living your life.

[Flickserve]

Interestingly, I met a friend of a friend who married a guy - just the same situation. He has a good job and they just recently moved to HK. We all had dinner together. Not being close to her, I didn't ask her about that. But they seem pretty balanced and the son is in secondary school here.

You can ask the BBC FB and you will get many replies of doing your own thing. I would say the same. I thought French's way of waiting and waiting was pretty good! Obviously, if the rest of your family have a similar perspective of your mother's behaviour, then you can be well assured that for any bloke you go our with, she will be saying the same thing. It sounds like her personality is geared to complaining.

My aunt is like that or was like that (though she was OK with me or was it me not understanding Hakka?). Her daughter (my cousin) married an English bloke and it wasn't easy. My aunt would not acknowledge the guy at the beginning and kudos to him for accepting how it was and change happens slowly.

If you love the guy and he loves you, then there really isn't much your mum can do. Of course she will try to make it miserable and difficult. And that sounds like a consistent feature of her behavior. If she doesn't attend a future wedding, that would be her choice. If she decides to attend but spoil things with her behaviour that would be very difficult. The most important person would be your husband to let it roll off his back. And that you expect that it would happen with the attitude that you cannot help her be happy if she doesn't want to. One day she might come round and mellow down - if she wants to.