Marrying a black guy - mum won't accept - Advice?

[yueni]

Hi, I'm a Singaporean Chinese with a really complicated background. My mother's 1st generation Singapore Chinese, my dad's Indonesian Chinese, but did university in the US, and has a lot of American/Western views.

 

I can't comment on the dating thing, because in that aspect, I've not been in your shoes, but the way your mother treats you is actually very common amongst the Chinese community, especially the very typical, traditional Chinese community. Love is never shown the way it is in Western society, and that's the way it is. In a way it is almost taken for granted. The back-biting and two-faced-ness, the high drama and theatrics are also very typical of some traditional Chinese women. My mother is very similar in that, and that is something my father, my sister, and myself hate about my mother.

 

The way your mother's gone to extremes in dealing with your decision to date & marry a black guy is also very typical when a child does something that she is uncomfortable with, that she feels will 1) make her lose face, 2) be a really bad decision for her child, 3) have massive repercussions on the family, and is 4) something that is completely beyond her ken.

 

I know, because I've been there. My story is a little different from yours, but my mother's reactions have been uniformly the same. When I was 21 and in college, I decided to leave college housing and share an apartment with one of my college friends. It was cheaper, I would have regular access to a kitchen, and I would at least get away from campus and have my own room. My mother flipped out, and by that I mean, there was screaming, yelling, accusations of how I was breaking her heart, I would regret it for the rest of my life, how dare I put her (and her entire family) through this, etc. etc. At that time, I had an internship and was staying with my parents for the summer. She basically summed up hours of screaming with the following ultimatum: call my friend and tell her I wouldn't be staying with her, or get kicked out of my parents' house.

 

I moved out 4 hours later.

 

Thereafter, she disowned me (again). It doesn't hurt any less than the first time. I was a wreck that whole year. It. Sucked. Balls. I don't even know how I graduated and actually got a degree. My dad and sister were supportive of me, so at least I had that (and I think you do too, with your dad and your siblings).

 

Still, I look back, and I know that that was one of the best decisions I made in my life. I learned that I wasn't dependent on my parents for anything. I learned that I could stand on my own two feet. And I learned I could handle myself (not necessarily well, but good enough) in situations that were emotionally stressful. I learned a lot that year, and I'd also chosen to make a life decision that has affected me even today.

 

First of all, whether or not your mother truly loves you or not is not something I can say. I know she cares at least a little about you, or there would not be any of this drama and nonsense. It could well be that she cares more about losing face than anything, but you can't control that. However, you are doing something that is completely beyond her ken. Chinese people have horrific racism against black people, largely through American media, misinformation, etc. Recognize that your mother is acting out through utter ignorance and a sense of losing control over you. It's not pretty, but there it is. Recognize that in Chinese culture, parents have a huge say over who their children marry, and she probably expected that, but you're not following the script. Recognize, too, that in this situation, you are better informed than she is.

 

You know:

1. That your boyfriend is a wonderful person that you've been with for years now.

2. Your boyfriend's family is wonderful and they love you.

3. Not all black people are out to rape, pillage, murder, and/or otherwise cause the apocalypse.

 

Finally, also recognize the following: this decision is something that you, and not her, are going to have to live with for the rest of your life. It is up to you to be the better person. Make your decision, and stand firm, and stand up to her. Treat her politely and with courtesy. Treat her like you would any other person in a normal situation, recognizing what her shortcomings are, but always know your decision and own it, whether it turns out for the better or for the worse.

 

When you do get married, and the world hasn't ended, and your boyfriend (or well, I guess husband at that point) is there treating you well and being successful and amazing, chances are, she will come around. My mother did. I've since realized that the high drama is usually done in situation where she feels like she's out of control, and where if something goes wrong, she can't step in and set things right. She does very poorly in situations she does not understand, and in situations where she has no control. My mother went crazy (again) when I told her a few years later that I was going to quit my high-paying, stable job to run off to China. I was slightly younger than you at that time, and I quite firmly told her I wasn't asking her permission to go, I was merely informing her that she might like to know that I would be in China in a few months so she wouldn't worry.

 

Now, my mother is proud of what I have achieved, and has conveniently forgotten that she did not want me to go. She talks about how she was 100% supportive etc. etc. We've ignored the fact that she once told me that if my parents were to divorce, I would be the cause. I was ten. We've ignored the fact that she's disowned me. Twice. I love my mother, but sometimes, I don't much like her.

 

Be firm, and show that you are in control. It might help for her to meet your boyfriend (understanding of course, that she's probably going to hate him on sight and/or be pleasant to his face, but nasty behind his back). And no matter what, remember that the crazy comes out in situations where she is not in control, and in situations where she is exceedingly ignorant. This is the way some people react in those situations. You can't change her, because you can't change her culture or background. Unpacking her idiosyncrasies is something you will be doing for a lifetime. Reframe her crazy into something you can handle.

 

One thing that has helped me is to sit and focus on the worst thing that could possibly happen. So for example, if I were to go to my mother to tell her that I was in your situation and marrying a guy she didn't like even though she'd never met him, what would be the absolute worst thing that could happen?

 

1. She'd disown me. Again.

2. She won't show up to the wedding...

 

Then think of what you can do to alleviate it and/or handle it.

 

1. She's disowned me before, and I'm still here and doing just fine. It'll suck, but at least my boyfriend/husband will be there and supportive.

2. Well, that's her loss really, and whether she's there or not won't affect the fact that I'm marrying the guy I love...

 

At the end of the day, it's not really anything that you can't handle. You have to understand that your current situation is a result of a lot of cultural differences, and you're seeing it from a largely Western/British perspective. You'll may never agree with how your mother is handling things, but she's been too long in a culture where her reaction is one of a series that is considered Situation: Normal. She may never change, but you can change how you deal with her and how you handle her. Just don't let her behaviour turn you cynical and bitter. I was very bitter and very cynical for a long, long time. It isn't worth it.

 

Happiness in the face of Crazy is infinitely more rewarding.

[Shelley]

Excellent post yueni, very glad to see you have come out of it well and happy and thank you for sharing with Tingting27. Lets hope it helps.

[French]

Now, my mother is proud of what I have achieved, and has conveniently forgotten that she did not want me to go. She talks about how she was 100% supportive etc. etc. We've ignored the fact that she once told me that if my parents were to divorce, I would be the cause. I was ten. We've ignored the fact that she's disowned me. Twice. I love my mother, but sometimes, I don't much like her.

I really laughed when I read this part of your post because I've lived and seen this scene countless times over the years.

[Wang7]

Tingting27;

Unfortunately, some us of have parents that have 'issues.'  Sometimes, their understanding of relationships, and the world in general, have never evolved beyond a certain point in their lives. It is always a startling revelation for adults to realize that they and their parents "are no longer on the same page." Apparently you find yourself in this situation, as I did with  my parents. 

 

Whether you know it or not, you have reached the conclusion of your relationship with your parents (on a transparent level). Your siblings accept your beau, and your boyfriend's parents and family accept you. In this matter, it is time to follow your heart and mind, and not your mother's voice and point of view, to guide you in this decision. Good luck.

[AlexBlackman]

Your mother is seeing the differences not the similarities.

Overseas Nigerians are generally hard working, entrepreneral, multilingual, confident and loving of their family and culture. They also have went through racism, marginalisation and cultureshock.

Overseas Cantonese are generally hard working, entrepreneral, multilingual, confident and loving of their family and culture. They also have went through racism, marginalisation and cultureshock.

I think you should take a gradual approach, start with pictures of him with his family. Especially ones with older or younger relatives. Have them see other Chinese people treat him with friendliness and respect. If you are to meet, meet for lunch at the weekend instead of an evening dinner, as people are more scared at nights, as they are obviously a bit scared of black people. Teach him a few basic polite phrases in Cantonese, this'll at least show he is interested.

*edit* I should mention I'm not African, so YMMV

[陳德聰]

I don't think you should play into the idea that "Overseas Nigerians are generally ..." and "Overseas Cantonese are generally ..." as if this type of weird race-based generalization is okay when you are using good qualities.

[AlexBlackman]

marginalisation and cultureshock are good?

[Pokarface]

The people I know who had an interracial marriage without their parents consent, their mother's accepted their relationship AFTER they had a baby. They wanted to be a part of the babies life and retook the chance to bond family ties.

[Tingting27]

Hi all,

Thank so much for all your replies! I apologise for the lateness, but thought I would finally drop in and give an update to my situation!

Thank you so much for all the advice - I felt like you guys understand more where I'm coming from and that trying to get acceptance is much more of an Asian thing than Western!

Now a year or so has passed, I am still with my partner and we have been officially engaged for over a year now (wedding date still to be determined!)

My mother and I have not spoken since that fateful day in April 2014 and whilst it still hurts that she hasn't tried to reconcile with me, I have moved on and feel happier about my situation with my fiancé.

I moved down to London to live with my partner and whilst it's been a bumpy road (involving moving houses twice and changing jobs, exams etc!) we are doing well!

I actually should've added in my original post that what made my situation even harder for me was that I worked for both my parents, they both owned seperate businesses (1 takeaway and 1 accountancy) so I saw them all the time and it made it particularly difficult and awkward that I would work weekends at the takeaway with my mum yet we wouldn't utter a word to each other.

I never told her directly I got engaged, got a new job in London or that I was permenantly leaving home (this was all horrible news to her) and she found out through my dad who also did not take the news of my engagement well. On the day of me leaving home whilst I had quite clearly moved all my boxes downstairs ready for the removal van, she (and my dad) walked straight past me and didn't even look at me - Whilst at the time I felt quite offended and a bit hurt, I now see this as them just being angry at me.

I had a hard time adjusting in my first few weeks in London, lack of familiarity, unknown area and no phone call at all from home - im fact they never called me once and in the 16 months i've been here, i've only received 3 calls from my dad asking when I'm coming home so he can get my signature for some paperwork!

Anyway I found it hard and busied myself with my ACCA exams and after finally passing all my exams, qualifying as a chartered accountant and getting a new higher paying job, I shared the good news with my dad who finally told me that he was very happy for me and that whilst he doesn't want to talk about the situation with my partner, he accepted that I was not the bad child they'd made me out to be when I was young and that I had achieved everything my parents ever wanted of me and that I had done everything they had asked.

This made me feel extremely happy and emotional as I finally felt worthy in the eyes of my parents, which I guess is what I'd craved since childhood. Knowing this has made letting go of my mum issues a lot easier. Like I said i'm still not on speaking terms with her - she actually has retired now and sold her shop so has nothing but free time now so she may have had time to think about things, but I think she won't put her ego aside and reach out to me.

I think she knows shes been wrong to me, but her pride won't let her apologise and I know she still can't accept him. My dad also told me that he told my mum about me qualifying as an accountant and she burst into tears because she was so happy - it only seems that now i'm seen as a professional that they accept me! But i'll take it as in all the years i've been around my mum, not once have I seen her cry or show any emotion other than anger!

Apart of me feels like I should be the bigger person and go to her, but then my head tells me, why should I? I've done nothing wrong, my only crime in this whole situation is dating a guy with dark skin, why should I go running to her, we were never close so it's not like I miss bonding with her or spending time with her or anything, I just feel I should have a mother in my life.

But anyway, i've moved on from where I was when I orginally posted and am in a much happier place. Perhaps in time she will come round and speak to me, but I won't hold my breath! My dad still speaks to me normally so long as we don't mention my partner, but there is progress there too - whilst he says it's still too soon for him to meet, he says possibly in the future when he's in a better frame of mind! - better than nothing!

I've attached a little photo of me and my partner at our lovely engagement party last year (I sent my parents an invite - they didn't reply or show up)

[陳德聰]

That's fantastic! Thank you for sharing your success story with us

[Shelley]

Glad you are happy and it was lovely to see your smiling faces, Thank you for the picture

 

Thanks for the update.

[Tianjin42]

Congratulations and well done persevering.

Lots of luck.

[Flickserve]

@tingting27

Good to know things are working out. Although it shouldn't need an exam to gain acceptance, yes, you have 'grown up' to be a professional. In this respect, I have had a similar experience. I put it down to a massive 'face' thing for Chinese parents. Did your sister attend your engagement party?

When you do get married, there will be the customary invites for the registry office and banquet. You might worry about your mother attending. I think she will attend but not say a word. Try not to be overly concerned about whatever she decides as that is her decision.

At my cousins wedding, her "father-in-law" had left the family leaving very small children and kept minimal contact. Of course there was a lot of resentment and consideration of not inviting him to the wedding of the son he was never part of. In the end, the FIL was still invited; he came, was ignored by all and quietly left the banquet. Everybody saved 'face'.

[roddy]

Tingting, I'm afraid I can't approve of your choices. Those are Lola's cupcakes, when the Hummingbird is far superior. 

 

Many thanks for coming back to update us - sounds like things are going well and hopefully will go even better. And if the lad's learning Chinese, send him our way for some help...

[Shelley]

Tingting, I'm afraid I can't approve of your choices. Those are Lola's cupcakes, when the Hummingbird is far superior.

 

Well I have spent 5 minutes scratching my head and searching the net and I still can't make sense of this sentence.

[gato]

Two cupcake shops, apparently.

http://www.tripadvisor.cn/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d2326275-Reviews-LOLA_S_Cupcakes-London_England.html

[imron]

The picture has a box of cupcakes from "Lola's". It seems Roddy is cupcake-ist and prefers the ones from the Hummingbird (presumably another shop that makes cupcakes).

[Lu]

Thanks for that update, and so happy to read that things are going well for you now!

[Shelley]

Well I never Cupcake wars.

 

Mmmm cupcakes, I am off in search of cupcakes now, any cupcake in a storm.

[Demonic_Duck]

I love a happy ending! Great to hear that things are going well for you.