Generally speaking, is it not possible to indicate 'was' or 'were' on '是‘ or '在‘？？

[Pedroski]

I was listening to this 听力练习 on this beautiful day, staring at the little mountain outside my window.

 

莉莉：英子，你不是在一家公司工作吗？

I， swift as an eagle, think ‘Yingzi, aren't you working for a company?’

英子：是的。

I， swift as an eagle, think 'Yes'

英子：5年前，我在公司做秘书，工作强度大，时间长，薪水又不高，挺辛苦的。有了孩子以后，我就辞职了。

I， swift as an eagle, think ‘Wait a minute, Lilly just asked if she worked for a company, and Yingzi said '是的’。 These women are crazy! Yingzi resigned after she had a baby!

 

Go back, listen again.

莉莉：英子，你不是在一家公司工作吗？, 英子：是的。not 英子：没有啊。

 

莉莉：英子，你不是在一家公司工作吗？here means ‘Yingzi, weren't you working for a company?’

 

I have looked for and found instances of '是了‘ and '是过’ but I think that the meaning was not to indicate that the given event was somewhere in the past.

 

他们过去是好朋友, 但现在已不再是了.

整个儿说起来, 我们的日子是过得挺痛快的.

 

Generally speaking, is it not possible to indicate 'was' or 'were' on '是‘ or '在‘？？

 

[Tiana]

Pedroski, next time try to phrase your questions so that the (largest possible) majority of readers can understand what you want .

I have looked for and found instances of '是了‘ and '是过’ but I think that the meaning was not to indicate that the given event was somewhere in the past.

 

1. 他们过去是好朋友, 但现在已不再是了.

2. 整个儿说起来, 我们的日子是过得挺痛快的.

 

The quote is the bit of your question I think I understand, and therefore may be able to help:

1. There is no 是了 in this sentence, but there is  不//再是//了, meaning "(something) is no longer the case" (ie., the use of 了 after a negative).

2. Similarly, there is no '是过’ in this sentence. You have to dissect the sentence like this: 我们的日子//是//过得挺痛快//的//. So, this is a "是...的" type of structure.

[Demonic_Duck]

He's asking whether it's possible to indicate a state in the past with “是了”. The answer is no.

 

I think usually it's clear from context (当时、那时候、以前、去年等), but in the passage given there are no such markers. I actually can't ever recall seeing an example like this before, which makes me wonder whether there were context clues in an earlier part of the conversation, which you haven't quoted? As a non-native speaker, I'd always assume that in the absence of such markers, “你不是在[地方]工作吗？” was referring to the present. Of course, I could be wrong in that assumption...

[Guest realmayo]

Then again if the 听力 is just eavesdropping on a conversation we can assume there is context in that 莉莉 knows that her friend isn't currently working in a company.

 

As a non-native speaker, I'd always assume that in the absence of such markers, “你不是在[地方]工作吗？” was referring to the present.

 

 

 

That was my assumption too, would be interesting to know what others think.

[Shelley]

I think perhaps part of the problem is "swift as an eagle" maybe it all needs more thought.

 

i can't work out what the question is, I think it is implied that it is a conversation between two people in the present but has reference to things that happened in the past - not sure if this is right, finding it hard to decipher the post.

 

Also if this is a transcript of something the OP was listening to, maybe it is not accurate, don't know - the whole thing is confusing.

[ZhangJiang]

 

 

英子，你不是在一家公司工作吗？

 

In this sentence, the emphasis or accent is mostly possible on 工作, meaning "Yingzi, I thought you were working in some company, (why now it seems you are not)?"

Then she replies, "Yes, (you are right to think that, but...)"

If the accent is on 公司, then it should mean "I thought you were working in a company, (why now it seems you are not working in one)?"

If the accent is on 在, which would mean "Aren't you working in a company? (Why are you acting like you don't have a job?)"

 

I would say the key to your confusion is "是的" here means "Yes, I agree with you" rather than "Yes, I am working in a company."

A: 你不去吗？You won't go?

B: 是啊。No.

[Guest realmayo]

 

 I would say the key to your confusion is "是的" here means "Yes, I agree with you" rather than "Yes, I am working in a company."

A: 你不去吗？You won't go?

B: 是啊。No.

 

Very hepful.

[Demonic_Duck]

ZhangJiang, you're fast becoming one of my favourite posters, especially when it comes to clearly and concisely explaining knotty grammatical problems.

[Shelley]

Have to agree with your post #8 Demonic_Duck. Good examples are given to make comprehension easier.

[ZhangJiang]

Thanks, it's my honor.

[wumaoge]

你不是在一家公司工作吗？

 

I believe this is called a 反问句.

It's not "是在“, in fact the 是 is part of the wrapping 反问句 syntax : 你不是………………吗？ (meaning: 你肯定…………)

So if you take only the part 在一家公司工作, it doesn't include tense and will depend on the context, in this case the past.

[Tiana]

It's not "是在“, in fact the 是 is part of the wrapping 反问句 syntax

 

 

"是在“ here has the same problem '是了‘ and  '是过’  have, as I explained in post no 2. 

To the OP: This kind of mis-dissecting would cause serious problem in understanding & progress, and a back-to-basic approach is therefore recommended.

[anonymoose]

I'm going to preemptively quote Pedroski here:

 

"是的" is wrong to mean "Yes, I agree with you" rather than "Yes, I am working in a company" because clearly in English, if someone says "Yingzi, aren't you working for a company?" and the response is "Yes", then it means "Yes, I am working in a company". Someone should teach the Chinese about grammar.

[Pedroski]

This was the beginning of the 听力练习， there is nothing before.

 

莉莉：英子，你不是在一家公司工作吗？

英子：是的。5年前，我在公司做秘书，工作强度大，时间长，薪水又不高，挺辛苦的。有了孩子以后，我就辞职了。

 

If Yingzi had said '不了‘ I would not have been confused.

 

This is a comment from stackexchange:

 

"As a native Chinese speaker, without any additional context, I assure you Yingzi misspoke.

 

Lily clearly meant, "Aren't you working for a company?", with a hint of "I remember you told me you were / I'm sure you are".

 

If Yingzi has quit, she should answer "I was, but not any more."

I suggest you to not bother too much about this, treat it as an error of the listening exercise, and move on."

 

Me: Generally speaking, is it not possible to indicate 'was' or 'were' on '是‘ or '在‘？？

 

Gf: No you can't use 'was = 是了 or 是过‘ 笨蛋的老外！

 

There seems to be a reversal of views about negativity between Chinese and Western languages.

 

Ask a Chinese  a question in the negative, 'Aren't you coming to the party?' they will answer logically correct: 'Yes' (I'm not coming to the party) whereas a Westerner will answer, logically incorrect 'No, I'm not coming to the party.'

 

Perhaps this is related to 英子的回答。

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gerri]

Ask a Chinese  a question in the negative, 'Aren't you coming to the party?' they will answer logically correct: 'Yes' (I'm not coming to the party) whereas a Westerner will answer, logically incorrect 'No, I'm not coming to the party.'

 

This is what I would have also pointed out. But then, it means that Yingzi did NOT misspeak, she correctly answered 是的（我不在一家公司工作）... The bit where she is explaining that it was in the past is in the next sentence.

Question would be, could she say something short to immediately answer that she did work at a company before (but isn't any longer)? Something like 以前工作了?

(不是 or something like that wouldn't be logical ... in Chinese... would it, for then she'd answer that she does or did not work for a company at all, right?)

[Pedroski]

Personally, I think 英子 answered correctly, it's just the logic threw me.

 

Chinese logic:

Posit: Aren't you working at a company?

Evaluate: Yes, I aren't!

 

Western logic:

Posit: Aren't you working at a company?

Evaluate: No, I aren't! (A kind of double negative)

 

Another guy at stackexchange put it this way, which I like:

 

Think about it like this. Let's say we recap this conversation in English, but omit any tenses:

• L: Yingzi, be not you working for a company?

• Y: Yes, I be. 5 years ago, I be a sectary blah blah. Then I quit.

You would have no problem inferring the tense of these sentences, right?

Chinese language is just like that. It doesn't depend on using different forms of verbs to indicate tense. You just have to infer that information from the context. And put enough information in your sentences for others to grasp your idea.

[陳德聰]

I encounter this problem in English quite often.

 

"You're not going to the party, right?"

 

Where "No":

"No, I am going to the party."

"No, I'm not going to the party."

 

I think this is simply a scope ambiguity issue, and not confined to "Chinese logic". Scope ambiguity seems to be pretty universal.

[Shelley]

The one that gets me is:

 

Do you mind if I borrow this book?

 

People say Yes

 

To my mind they should say No. The question says "do you mind", if you say yes it means "Yes I do mind."

 

I hear it all the time and each time I have a little chuckle to my self.

[Tiana]

Pragmatically speaking, the following is ok to me, even in English (Don't forget that communication = language + gesture (or the way you say it)):

Do you mind if I borrow this book?

Yes, go ahead. I don't mind.

[Shelley]

That works because you said Yes, go ahead. I don't mind, but to me it still sounds wrong.

 

If you just answered yes or no, the answer yes means I do mind and no you cannot borrow that book.

 

What I would expect to hear is No, I don't mind. Go ahead.