Red China and Democracy

[gato]

Democracy does not sound like a good idea in a place like China where polls have shown that a majority of people want a war with a certain neighbouring country, etc.

If the government didn't control the media, it is possible that the public's attitude towards Japan might be more similar to the attitude of most HKers towards Japan.

Back when I was in elementary school in China in the 1980s, the government and the media it controlled actively promoted friendly relation with Japan. Deng Xiaoping wanted to leave that part of history as history and promote economic development. Primetime TV back then was dominated by Japanese cartoons and and dramas (people were just starting to own TVs back then). Now Japanese TV programs and movies are nowhere to seen on TV or movie theaters in China. It's all due a shift in government propaganda policy post 1989 Tiananmen, when the government decide that the best protection for the CCP is to fan the hatred towards the Japan and promote the role of the CCP protecting the nation against the Japanese.

Anti-Japanese education has been mandated in the classroom since the early 1990s.

See this article below about government orders to show anti-Japanese TV dramas for two months this September. It's transparent and frankly disgusting to those who can see through it.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/east-asia/story/china-orders-patriotic-anti-fascist-series-tv-20140814

China orders 'patriotic' anti-fascist series on TV

PUBLISHED ON AUG 14, 2014

BEIJING (AFP) - China has ordered the country's television broadcasters to air "patriotic" or anti-fascist series for two months from September, reports said, stepping up its propaganda efforts amid disputes with Japan and ahead of national holidays.

Such programmes are already a staple of Chinese television, but news portal Netease, citing unnamed industry insiders, said satellite channels - which are all controlled by provincial governments - had been ordered to broadcast them in prime time until the end of October.

[studychinese]

Gato, indeed the anti Japanese education is a problem but what guarantee is there that we will see a reasonable and accurate reporting from the media in a 'democracy'. The US media is essentially one organisation with a single stream of thought, following the US government uncritically and trying to gin up wars overseas and racial strife at home.

In China the anti Japanese education has resulted in most people having an almost allergic reaction to the mentioning of Japan. For example someone asked me which countries I have been to and I started to list the many countries that I have been to out. The listener listens in silence until Japan comes up and then there is an instant interjection of "I hate Japan!" (我恨日本！) and the like. This happened many times, enough for me to know that I had better avoid the subject of Japan altogether unless the other person seems cool with it. I speak Japanese, lived in Japan, but I cover it up for the sake of harmonious relationships with people that are otherwise good people but completely retarded when it comes to Japan.

[ParkeNYU]

I love the look on mainlanders' faces when I show them evidence of Japan's apologies.

 

It's always a big "oh..." moment; I love it!

[imron]

It's always a big "oh..." moment; I love it!

Really? On the few occasions I have discussed this topic with Chinese people and have shown them evidence the reaction has always been along the lines of:

 

"That was not a real apology.  If it was a real apology, the Japanese Prime Minister would kneel before the Chinese and apologise, just like the German chancellor did.  Instead the Japanese Prime Minister still visits a shrine to war criminals."

[studychinese]

imron, that's right. I've heard exactly the same thing along with -

*The apology was just a private apology from the Japanese PM, not an act of parliament

*Unlike Germany where it is illegal to deny or minimize aspects of the holocaust, it is legal in Japan to deny or minimize the Nanjing massacre. Therefore the apology is not sincere

*The Japanese PM did not mention specific incidents. There fore the apology is not sincere

*we don't need apologies. We should just nuke Japan to teach them a lesson

I don't see how democracy is going to bridge the difference in historical worldview between Japan and China. In fact I am sure it won't. Just look at South Korea.

[ParkeNYU]

It seems that no apology will ever be sufficient. After all, the PRC and ROK have a vested interest in maintaining a boogeyman for diversion. Japan has already been nuked twice, and has been thoroughly dominated by the U.S. to a culturally embarrassing extent. The demand for reparations is even more heinous, because Japan's current economy had to start from scratch after the war; Japan suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of the U.S. and her allies, and to this day are not allowed to have a real military. When we talk about paying reparations to the descendents of American slaves, the common justification is that the rest of America benefited from free labour, even if they never supported slavery themselves. However, not even this argument can be used in the case of Japanese reparations, because it was the U.S. that had acted as the primary source of Japan's current wealth, not the victimised nations of East Asia. Therefore, any reparations today or tomorrow would be purely punitive, and those who had nothing to do with the war would be financially punished.

 

That being said, I believe that Japan ought to:

 

1) Remove the names of the war criminals from 靖國神社 (just as no country should enshrine their own war criminals).

2) Educate their citizens about the facts of Japanese aggression in East Asia, without promoting collective guilt or implying an obligation for personal atonement (just as any country should be honest about their history without wallowing in it).

3) Directly reaffirm their apology once more for the record, in no uncertain terms, without beating around the bush.

 

Even if the PRC and ROK do not find these three steps to be sufficient, Japan would at least be able to gain the moral high ground in the eyes of the international community.

[studychinese]

ParkeNYU,

 

None of those three things are possible.

 

1) Yasukuni is a private organisation not under the control of the Japanese government. The spirits of the war dead, all of them including war criminals, are present as spirits as a matter of faith. The Shinto priests could no more say that certain 'heroic ghosts' are no longer present anymore than the Catholic Pope could say there is no god.

 

2) Chinese perceptions of Japanese aggression are different to Japanese perceptions. In order to be in harmony with the Chinese perception the Japanese would have to subscribe 100% to the Chinese view. 

 

3) This won't work for the same reason that previous apologies don't work. It is the position of the Chinese government to NEVER let it rest. Just ask Jiang Jiemin - he said that it is the intention of the Chinese government to keep tensions with Japan going forever.

[Shelley]

I love the look on mainlanders' faces when I show them evidence of Japan's apologies.

 

It's always a big "oh..." moment; I love it!

 

 

More evidence from the above quote and other posts you have made that this idea to "save" the Chinese people is for your own personal gratification and not purely altruistic. Have you ever thought that they may not want saving?

 

Don't tell people all these things, live a morally correct life by your standards, and teach by example. Let them see how people from the so called bad countries live good and decent lives.

 

You can batter this information into people but never actually succeed, they may say yes on the outside to get you stop hitting them but not believe inside what you say. You want people to want to believe by seeing how you live.

 

These are all things you may eventually learn as you experience more of life and the world.

[ParkeNYU]

More evidence from the above quote and other posts you have made that this idea to "save" the Chinese people is for your own personal gratification and not purely altruistic. Have you ever thought that they may not want saving?

 

To 'save' them sounds an awful lot like the British mentality when they 'civilised' Hong Kong and the American mentality when they 'civilised' Japan. I am about as anti-imperialist as it gets, which has led to a lot of my controversial views about 港澳臺. Despite what the western media might proclaim, the PRC seems to be a fairly stable country and its inhabitants fairly content on average. Offering new points of view is by no means an attempt to 'save' them, but only to 'enlighten' them; to ignore other points of view is willful ignorance. Such discussions are not tantamount to a rescue because I have just as much of a chance to be enlightened by a mainlander as he has to be enlightened by me; did I imply that we are not on equal footing? My own country has plenty of biased indoctrination, as I've mentioned numerous times in the past, that I've had to actively resist throughout my life. Knowledge is power.

[Shelley]

Well I don't think i have any more to add to this discussion without repeating myself so I will leave it here.

 

I hope you have a really good time in China, meet lots of interesting, enlightening people, that you learn lots of Chinese and come back from your visit wiser and happier.

 

Have a safe journey and tell us how it went.