The Stigma of Japan

[Angelina]

 

'Victim Olympics'

 

Ha I'm from Macedonia, so I am sure 'we' will win the Victim Olympics. Especially since it is the anniversary of the Dekemvriana now and Golden Dawn is here to remind us that 'we' need to be punished again.

 

 

I make a concerted effort to look at history squarely and without emotion, otherwise these emotions might blind my logic, which is unprofessional and unacceptable.

 

Precisely the detachment that allows for atrocities to happen. When you don't see an another human being as an another human being who has the same emotions that you do. Why should we look at history without emotions? 

 

Are you doing research in political science? 

[ParkeNYU]

I disagree. It is greed and a lack of empathy that allow these atrocities to happen. I believe that empathy is extremely important in the study of history, but not emotions. There is a clear difference.

 

By not adding emotions, I am not adding indignation, fury, despair, vengeance, spite, sorrow, nostalgia, or pride, none of which are beneficial for this purpose.

[Angelina]

How will you understand someone else's sorrow, if you don't feel anything yourself? 

 

I don't mean the 'Japanese are evil' kind of feeling, but people definitely need to be more open about their emotions. Only then, they can understand that Japanese people are people like them. We have to fight racism by using our emotions. We can't say that most people are racist and give up. 

[LiMo]

This is getting heavy. Umm...how is empathy separate from "emotions"?

 

My advice: Just be honest, I bet that if you just say the following verbatim nobody will bat an eye：

 

"I've studied Japanese for years now and I'm really interested in the cultures of East Asia in general"

No need to gush, no need to talk about any awkward subjects. It's like when my Chinese teacher was discussing the etymology(?) of a character and slaves were involved, being the only black person there she turned to me and apologised for bringing it up before carrying on. Needless to say I almost shat myself from laughing   

Yes slavery is/was horrible but black people don't all have a complex about it. It's the same in this situation. If she has older relatives who lived through the Japanese occupation you might want to be extra careful but otherwise I would just chill. 

 

Good luck 

[Angelina]

Actually, if we look at the etymology of the English word slave, we will go back to Golden Dawn and their Slavic people must die mission. Pale people have also been slaves.

 

As the poster above said, there are no proactive movements like that in China, so don't worry.

[ParkeNYU]

An example of empathy: "A terrible thing happened to these people. I understand that it was terrible because I would not want it to happen to my people. This situation should be rectified reasonably."

 

An example of emotion: "These people should never be forgiven for the evil that they've committed. Far-reaching broad-stroke punitive actions should be exercised against them for what they've done. The stain of sin should never be erased from their heads."

[Angelina]

An example of emotion: There are no my people and these people. I understand that Johnny's dad has hurt Peter's dad, but I won't judge Johnny or Peter because both of them are part of my family.

 

Peace!

[ParkeNYU]

That sounds like empathy to me. Perhaps this is now just a matter of semantics.

[studychinese]

Japan is a taboo subject. That is all you really need to know.

Avoid discussing Japan with Chinese people that have never been to Japan. Most don't have accurate information about modern Japan, don't know that Japan has a peace constitution, don't know about Japanese assistance to China (carefully concealed by the Chinese government), etc.

 

Don't waste your time 'discussing' things with low information people. It is pointless.

[ParkeNYU]

Most don't have accurate information about modern Japan

 

Do those without accurate information not deserve to be informed? They can take it with a pinch of salt if they wish.

[studychinese]

No, the people that you talk to must have the capacity to take in the information that you are relaying.

This has been tried and failed.

[ParkeNYU]

If only there were some mainlanders on this forum, perhaps we could talk to them and find out.

[Demonic_Duck]

I tend to find that when talking to someone about a highly emotive subject such as this (other examples: religion, politics, TCM etc.), the least confrontational way to frame things is to make everything subjective. So in your case:

 

"My own experiences of Japanese culture have been almost entirely positive. I don't have any personal reason to hate Japan, and from those experiences I've found many things I love about the country. I understand that your experiences and background are different from mine, and I also recognise the objective fact that the Japanese committed terrible crimes against China and other countries during WWII. However, that side of Japan isn't something I've seen in my own interactions with Japanese people - in fact, every Japanese person I've spoken to about it has expressed nothing but shame and regret about that part of their history."

 

Bolded parts are those all-important hedge words which frame what you're saying as personal experience. Expressing yourself like this, you can be reasonably honest without in any way negating the other person's feelings on the subject.

 

Edit: of course, this doesn't help if your aim is to challenge their beliefs (although this kind of softly-softly approach could at least potentially change their opinion from "all/most Japanese people are bad" to "some Japanese people are good"). However, it does help if your aim is to be honest in an unconfrontational way. When you're talking to certain people (and you may not know who these people are until you test them), this is your only option; anything stronger will most likely make them defensive and entrench their position. Low information isn't the problem so much as an unwillingness to change cherished beliefs.

[889]

"I love the look on mainlanders' faces when I show them evidence of Japan's apologies. It's always a big 'oh...' moment; I love it!"

 

I think you're going to have a difficult time in China. Quite deservedly.

 

And I think you're going to relish every minute of it. That's what's really disturbing.

[Johnny20270]

I think you might be suffering from paranoia or narcissism

 

I don't understand why this is an issue. I assume you are not Japanese nor Chinese?  As long you don't go on about how great the japan in front of Chinese . Foreigners should always keep out of deeply seeded and troubling nationalist topics. 

 

On a side note, I am directly descended from one of Matthew Perry's close friends who personally helped Emperor Meiji come to power, so my own blood is responsible for a lot of that mess.

 

 

I assume your talking about Matthew C Perry the 19th century??  Not wishing to be insulting but seriously ... no-one cares (as regards your post sensitivity) What is that 5/6 generations back? That's like me (Irish) hating all the English people, or English / Jewish blaming today's German people about WW2

 

I live in Belfast during some of the hard years in the early 1990s and it wound nationalist Irish people right up when a redneck 2nd or 3rd Irish American being all pro IRA and supporting the 'cause' with their anti-English rhetoric. Same in Israel. No-one wants an outsider coming in with the support or condemnation one way or another. 

 

In a nut shell it has nothing to do with you and you certainly can't be empathetic.  

[ParkeNYU]

I think you're going to have a difficult time in China. Quite deservedly.

 

And I think you're going to relish every minute of it. That's what's really disturbing.

 

What I relish is their realisation that the CCP-controlled media hasn't disclosed the whole story to them, but rather only a slanted fragment. These realisations lead to less hatred and more empathy. Dangerously biased reporting is in no way unique to the PRC. I also derive a sense of accomplishment from enlightening my own fellow Americans about the utter hogwash that the American media spoon-feeds them concerning certain topics, which usually ends with me defending the PRC against American hypocrisy (especially in regards to national preservation, environmental concerns, and human rights). Uncomfortable truths are best thrust out into the open when summoned, lest everyone believe that the emperor wears clothes.

 

In fact, just a few days ago, when the PRC was catching hell on Facebook for one of their company's canal-building plans in Nicaragua, I was only too pleased to remind these critics of America's nearly identical plans a century earlier. Two wrongs do not make a right, but boy does it make it troubling to cast the first stone.

 

Obviously, I shall make an effort to avoid these topics while in the PRC. However, I find it particularly uncomfortable to gleefully nod along when what is being said conflicts with my own narrative of the world.

[戴 睿]

The vast majority of my friends are from mainland China, and are between the ages of 20-28.

I have told almost all of them that someday after mandarin I'd really like to learn Japanese. I mention that I'm interested in their culture.

I've never once gotten a negative response from this. Probably because, even if a profound cultural bias wherein all Chinese despised Japan did exist (not at all true for the vast majority of the current generation in their 20s), they would never hold a non-Chinese foreigner to those same standards.

I've also met many Chinese university students who study japanese and speak quite well. I've never seen them get hassled for it.

Allow me to teach you a Chinese phrase I expect you'll encounter a lot while in China:

哥们儿，你想太多了

[studychinese]

ParkeNYU, I think you can talk about these matters in China, but you should do so in the knowledge that it could strain or ruin relationships with Chinese people. Most people, not just Chinese people, tend to harden their positions when confronted by information that conflicts with their beliefs, because people abhor cognitive dissonance.

So if you don't care about the relationship, go ahead. If someone is subjecting you to an unwelcome 'language rape' in order to speak English, give them an earful about Japan.

[ParkeNYU]

I will probably limit my discussion of Japan to the language itself, and I'd be surprised if anyone were to have a problem with it. I'm not the kind of person who would go around proclaiming how great Japan is in such an environment anyway, even if they historically did nothing wrong. I'm there to appreciate Chinese culture and society, after all, and any discussion about Japanese would be in relation to that focal point (my knowledge of Chinese characters and certain pan-Asian customs, for example).

[戴 睿]

I believe that empathy is extremely important in the study of history, but not emotions. There is a clear difference.

P.S., not to unnecessarily further drive this conversation into the realm of semantics, but I think the word that more accurately captures what you are trying to describe is "sympathy," not "empathy." Empathy implies commonly shared, similar personal experiences. You can't be very empathetic in regards to the Japanese Chinese conflicts, because you've probably never personally experienced anything like that. But you can be sympathetic.