Extended meaning of several complements

[刘慧婷]

I'm coming to the end of my one-month Chinese program in Shanghai but we've recently come across some grammar that I've had trouble with in the past. When I attempted the exercise questions I only got 5/20 correct but when I asked the teacher to please help explain how I should know when to use which phrase he just told me that the Chinese use such and such out of habit which tells me nothing at all since I'm not a native speaker.

 

If anyone could please help elaborate on these set phrases and their meanings within different contexts it would be great not just for my test preparation but for a better understanding of the Chinese language itself. To clear things up, I understand (at least I believe I do) how the phrases work as simple directional complements - such as giving me information on where the speaker is and just general movement - it's the extended meanings in different situations that I struggle to comprehend.

 

Here are 10 of the questions I didn't understand with comments I added to try and make sense of them:

 

Word bank: 起来，下去，下来，出来，上去，过来

 

1. 20 世纪 80 年代以后，出国留学生的人一下子就多起来了。起来 = an upward movement or increase?

 

2. 等了半天车也没来，天已经渐渐地黑下来。下来 = downward movement as the night descends?

 

3. 广告上说的很好，可是用起来一点儿也不方便。I have no clue...

 

4. 我听出来了，这不是中国音乐，而是日本音乐。I thought 出来 was when something was coming out of you hence 出 but when you're listening to music it goes into you.

 

5. 我想起来了，明天晚上我有一个约会。The two clauses in this sentence don't seem to match very well with me but I know 想起来 means to recall.

 

6. 晚上十点以后，这家酒吧就热闹起来了。Does 起来 in this situation mean it becomes more lively?

 

7. 这个句子的语法错误你看出来吗? Same as sentence 4, I thought 看 was a process where you absorbed information in through your eyes.

 

8. 快考试了，我们又忘起来了。Is this the opposite of 想起来 meaning you can't remember? Should I remember 忘 and 起来 go together as a set phrase?

 

9. 我今天睡到十一点半才醒过来。 I thought this was 起来 because you get up out of bed (起床) but maybe I misunderstood the context?

 

10. 把北京的胡同连起来，就又十一条万里长城。I didn't know 连 had a verb form but I'm still not sure why 起来 is used.

 

I think part of the problem is I don't understand the sentences and the context surrounding them. For example, sentence 3 sounds vague to me so I'm not entirely sure what's happening but I can guess that a customer bought a product based on an ad but when they used it it wasn't very convenient. I don't remember coming across 一点儿也不 so it sounds strange to me and then there's a whole bunch of confusing thoughts in my head so I just tried to guess the correct answers.

 

Pleco also tells me 下去 and 下来 both mean 'continuation', is there a difference between the two?

 

Sorry if my thoughts don't make much sense but I'd really appreciate if someone set my mind on the right track to thinking about these sentences and how I use these complements.

 

Thanks!

[Yorin]

1. 20 世纪 80 年代以后，出国留学生的人一下子就多起来了。起来 = an upward movement or increase?

 

 

起来  as a complement (in this case) means the start of something.

多起来了 =  there started to be more (students)

 

2. 等了半天车也没来，天已经渐渐地黑下来。下来 = downward movement as the night descends?

 

 

The combination 黑下来 just means it's getting dark, as you've mentioned the logic is similar to "night descends".

 

3. 广告上说的很好，可是用起来一点儿也不方便。I have no clue...

 

 

The meaning of 一点儿也不 (and 一点儿都不) is "not at all". Does that help you? Or do you need anything else to understand the meaning?

 

4. 我听出来了，这不是中国音乐，而是日本音乐。I thought 出来 was when something was coming out of you hence 出 but when you're listening to music it goes into you.

 

 

As a german I may be in an advantage here, since we have the beautiful verb "heraushören".  听出 or 听出来 basically means: there is something in (the music/the sound) and you can hear what's in it, you can "hear it out of the music", you can take note of it.

 

5. 我想起来了，明天晚上我有一个约会。The two clauses in this sentence don't seem to match very well with me but I know 想起来 means to recall.

 

 

You are correct. I don't know why you think the sentences don't match. What do you think is meaning of the second sentence?

 

6. 晚上十点以后，这家酒吧就热闹起来了。Does 起来 in this situation mean it becomes more lively?

 

 

Yes. You can also say "it starts to be ..."

 

7. 这个句子的语法错误你看出来吗? Same as sentence 4, I thought 看 was a process where you absorbed information in through your eyes.

 

 

Just as in sentence 4, you have to see it this way: the information is absorbed out of ... (whatever you are looking at)

 

8. 快考试了，我们又忘起来了。Is this the opposite of 想起来 meaning you can't remember? Should I remember 忘 and 起来 go together as a set phrase?

 

 

起来 does mean "to start to ..." for the majority of verbs (as in "to start to forget" here).

It's probably better to remember it the other way round, special combinations which are not translated as "to start to ..." in English.

e.g. 想起来 - to remember (there is a logic to it, to remember something is to start thinking about it!)

 

9. 我今天睡到十一点半才醒过来。 I thought this was 起来 because you get up out of bed (起床) but maybe I misunderstood the context?

 

 

 

醒过来 here is means "to sober up" (过来 in the sense of "you got over it"). I really think some of the examples you've been given are rather exotic. It would be better to master the literal meaning of the complements first.

 

10. 把北京的胡同连起来，就又十一条万里长城。I didn't know 连 had a verb form but I'm still not sure why 起来 is used.

 

 

Are you sure you're not confusing 连 with something else? I'd say 连 is mostly used as a verb.

连起来 means "to link together" (can't think of a logical explanation for it right now, it's just the way it is).

 

Hope that was helpful!

[Altair]

Chinese directional complements generally have both literal and metaphorical meanings.  Often they have more than one metaphorical meaning, and sometimes the meaning is kind of mix of physical and metaphorical.  This is similar to the situation in English, where "look up" and "look out" have primarily physical meanings; "speak up" and "speak out" have primarily metaphorical meanings; and "shout down" and "run down" have kind of a mix.

 

The usage of these complements is rather idiomatic in both English and Chinese, but there are clear themes and meanings that tend to associate with specific complements, but which may vary depending on the semantics of the verb.  One thing to pay attention to is that English and Chinese do not agree very much on the same pairings of physical and metaphorical meanings, and so you must consult a good dictionary.

 

1. 起来 physically indicates a rising movement, but metaphorically can indicate the beginning of a movement.  The metaphorical usage works with just about any verb.

 

多起来了

"is beginning to be numerous" or "are more and more"

 

2. 下来 physically indicates a downward movement, but can metaphorically indicate a continuous movement that stops at the present or some other point in time. The metaphorical usage works mostly with verbs that can be thought of as a process that "winds down."

 

黑下来

"getting dark"

 

3. 起来 here has a flavor of "upon..." or "when it comes to...," which is an extension of its meaning "to begin."

 

用起来

"Upon use" or "when you begin using it"

 

4. 出来 means "out" in a physical sense, but metaphorically can mean the same as the "out" in "figure out."  These usage works with any verb of perception.

 

我听出来了

"I figured out by listening to it"

 

5. Even though dictionaries have "to recall" as a special gloss for 想起来, this is really another example of the meaning in No. 1.

 

我想起来了

"Now I remember!"

 

6. This is the same as No. 1. and 5.

 

热闹起来了

"is beginning to be lively" or "is livening up"

 

7.  This is the same as No. 4.

 

你看出来吗?

"Can you see/read and figure them out?" or "Can you see/read and recognize them?"

 

8. This is the same as No. 1, 5, and 6.

 

我们又忘起来了

"We are beginning to forget again."

 

9.   过来 has the physical meaning of "crossing over," but can have the metaphorical meaning of crossing from a less usual state of consciousness to another one that is like the state the speaker is."  This usage is restricted to only a few verbs with appropriate meanings. (E.g., 觉悟过来 "see the light") (Compare also: 晕过去 "go into a faint").

 

 

I thought this was 起来 because you get up out of bed (起床) but maybe I misunderstood the context?

Consider that you can wake up without getting up.  Chinese makes this clearer.

 

我今天睡到十一点半才醒过来。

Today I slept until 10 and woke up only then.

 

10. This usage of 起来 is different from the previous ones.  起来 can be used after verbs that have to do with "assembly."  I presume this has something to do with the start of a new, effective condition.  It has the same flavor as the English usage of "up" with similar verbs.

 

连起来

"link up" or "connect"

 

 

t. I don't remember coming across 一点儿也不 so it sounds strange to me

一点儿也不 is basically "not even a little bit" or "not at all."

 

广告上说的很好，可是用起来一点儿也不方便。

What was said in the advertisement was nice, but when you actually use it, it's not the least bit suitable/convenient

 

 

Pleco also tells me 下去 and 下来 both mean 'continuation', is there a difference between the two?

下去 indicates continuation away from the speaker or some reference point and so implies a beginning point, but no end point.  In contrast,下来 indicates continuation toward the speaker or some reference point and so implies an end point, but no beginning point.

[刘慧婷]

Thank you to the both of you for helping explain some of these concepts to me! I think I'll need a lot more practice hearing and using these terms myself for them to stick in my head and have a better grasp of when and how to use them. I think even as I wrote my post I sort of began to map out some of the particular characteristics to each phrase in my head.

 

And to altair, just wondering if you got those definitions from a dictionary because they are very clear and concise. Even if you didn't, is there a dictionary you would recommend I buy? I usually just use Pleco on my tablet so I don't have a paper or online one.

[PBolchover]

Some comments, based on my own (limited) experience:

• "听出来“ and "看出来" both have a secondary meaning of "to understand"  [i think of it as "to bring out the meaning of"]
• "V 下来" can refer to a verb continuing from the past to the present
• "V 下去" can refer to a verb continuing from the present to the future
• "V 起来” can refer to something starting, or increasing in intensity

These phrase constructions are very figurative in meaning, and were taught explicitly in my textbook.  I think that it very unfair of your school to expect you to deduce these, without the construction being taught by the school.

[Altair]

 

And to altair, just wondering if you got those definitions from a dictionary because they are very clear and concise. Even if you didn't, is there a dictionary you would recommend I buy? I usually just use Pleco on my tablet so I don't have a paper or online one.

I basically rely on Pleco as well, but have bought about ten of the dictionaries over the years for various idiosyncratic reasons.  For the purpose at hand, I actually found the PLC dictionary the most helpful.

 

You have to look beyond the simple listing of synonyms and look for commonalities in the example sentences.  Most of the definitions are good, but I know from experience that some of them are misleadingly simple or ill considered.  Unlike what is correctly recommended to most learners, I take a literal approach to language first and so always search for commonalities that will explain the different uses of a word and the differences in the grammar.

 

If this doesn't clarify things, let me know.

[anonymoose]

Previous posters have already explained these things (I didn't read what they had posted though), so here I just want to recommend you get a good grammar book which will explain these this to you, and no doubt many other things that have been confusing you.

 

The one I recommend is Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip and Rimmington, but there are also other good grammars available.

[Guest realmayo]

I would also recommend that you spend some time regularly reading (out loud, ideally) a few very short example sentences that include these complements: this is because my experience was that even though I logically worked what they meant, they still 'felt' awkward and difficult, until I forced my brain to get used to them and treat them as a perfectly normal, common part of Chinese. (But maybe that was just me being particularly slow with this grammar.)

[刘慧婷]

Thank you for all the replies and suggestions.

 

Now that I think about it, my revision is usually silent but I don't think that method is as helpful as actually reading my notes and examples out loud. I'll definitely give it a try even though I do feel a bit silly and shy at times reading aloud in public places >_<