Cantonese language online and offline resources

[atitarev]

Hi all,

Sorry if these topics were discussed on this forum but I'd like to get more web resources for Cantonese learners. I had trouble finding good Cantonese learning sites, at least not as good as you could find for Putonghua or Japanese (if interested, send me a message, I'll share with you). If you have some links please post here.

I would greatly appreciate some links where can get written Cantonese text (preferably as TEXT, not Flash or image file), some pronunciation guide (in whatever romanization used - Jyutping, Yale, etc) and/or audio files you can download and listen off-line (wav, wmv, rm, etc). (Plenty of those for Putonghua and Japanese).

Is there a freeware/shareware word processor you can use to type in Cantonese characters phonetically on a Western PC? I've been using NJStar, it's pretty good but not 100% suitable for Cantonese, a lot of characters are missing, try for example pasting 哋 (DEIH) character into NJStar Chinese or CQuickTrans. With Microsoft IME, I couldn't get the Chinese (Hong Kong) IME to work at all - it always types in Latin only, using Chinese (PRC) to type in simplified characters and Chinese (Taiwan) in traditional. I forgot how to set it up to type in using hanyu pinyin! Very annoyed. My question is, what is the best way to type in Cantonese PHONETICALLY, if there is one? If you mastered the way Microsoft IME for Cantonese works or can use Chinese (Taiwan) for the same purpose, please explain, in brief, how it works.

Is there software on- or offline to convert Cantonese character text into a romanized text (something like NJStar Chinese does to Putonghua/Guoyu)? I am probably pushing my luck here but I'll ask any way.

If you have your own - offline stuff (e.g. MP3 files acompanyng Cantonese text or similar), offline Cantonese tutorials for English speakers, we could probably swap, let's talk about it.

In case you haven't saved these links in favorites, here are some Cantonese links I found:

Cantonese lessons (with sounds):

http://www.chinawestexchange.com/Cantonese/index.htm

Very basic romanized:

http://www.chinesebay.com/cantonese/basic.asp

Some fun lessons using Flash

http://livechat.no-ip.com:8080/chinese/index.cfm

A good one:

http://www.cantonese.ca/

Dictionaries (some are very good, please read instructions)

http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/

http://www.chineselanguage.org/CCDICT/index.html

Software - gives various pronuncitions and meaning for characters, you can paste a whole Chinese text and get listing for all unique characters. Unregistered version doesn't allow to copy to another program, though.

CQuickTran (JQuickTrans for Japanese)

http://www.coolest.com/

And of course, NJStar word processors and a communicator.

http://www.njstar.com/

Jackie Chan fan site, download some songs - most are in Mandarin but plenty in Cantonese as well with lyrics (in image files, not text).

http://www.jackiechanmusic.com/dload/index.html

About myself: I am 38 years old, native Russian, live in Australia. Have been learning Japanese on and off for many years and dabbled in Mandarin - didn't approach it systematically, so haven't progressed much. Now I spend more time with both Mandarin and Japanese, bought great books, CD's and other learning material and very curious to learn Cantonese in parallel to Mandarin. Just got the "Teach Yourself Cantonese" textbook and Cantonese-English phrasebook, will look for the acompanying CD's or tapes.

I'm fluent in Russian, English and German. Passively functional in French and Polish (can read some newspaper materials). Can't boast about my Japanese, have mastered a few novels - but I know it on the high school level - teaching my daughter Japanese as well.

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Another question on top of the others I asked. Do you know of any Cantonese text-to-speech synthesizers?

For example, these are the first 2 dialogs from Teach Yourself Cantonese (Hugh Baker and Ho Pui-Kei). With a voice synthesizer, I would paste this text in a window or select the text and click a button to hear a voice reading it.

會面

早晨﹐王先生。

早晨﹐張小姐。你好嗎﹖

我好好。你呢﹖

好好。

你太太呢﹖

佢都好﹐有心。

噢﹐ 對唔住﹐貴姓呀﹖

我姓何﹐你係李小姐嗎﹖

唔係﹐我姓張。何先生﹐你係唔係美國人呀﹖

唔係﹐我係英國人﹐我賣美國車﹕美國車好靚﹐你要唔要呀﹖

唔要﹐唔要。美國車好貴﹕我要日本車。再見﹐何先生。

你唔要﹐李小姐要唔要呀﹖

李小姐都唔要。再見﹐再見。

Here's a link to Chinese Pen download page (stops working after 3 months of use).

http://www.simtel.net/product.download.mirrors.php?id=78312

You can use this program (above) to draw simplified/traditional Chinese characters, read selected text aloud in Putonghua(in male or female voice). (You can set up both the speed of writing and reading). The quality of reading aloud may not be 100% but it's very close, if you struggle with tones.

Here's an online tool (Bell Labs Mandarin Text-to-Speech Synthesis)

http://www.bell-labs.com/project/tts/mandarin.html

I don't know any such tool for Cantonese or Japanese (there are probably some commercial expensive tools for Japanese) but such a tool for Cantonese probably doesn't exist.

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Actually, the tool exist, as I just found out but is not available to public(?). Some examples (3 sentences) of synthesized voice for Cantonese are in the middle of this page:

http://www.bell-labs.com/project/tts/archive.html

I am not impressed with the quality but it's a good start.

Anatoli

[Quest]

Not that I use any of these but:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%E7%B2%A4%E8%AF%AD+%E8%BE%93%E5%85%A5%E6%B3%95

also,

你好嗎? and 你係李小姐嗎﹖are mandarin, should be 你几好嘛？ and 你係唔係（係咪）李小姐？

[roddy]

你係李小姐嗎 is Mandarin? I'm in trouble . . .

Are you aware of Adam Sheik's Cantonese Site? It was a lot of resources, a dictionary and forums. You didn't mention it in your list, but I'd be suprised if you didn't know it, as I think it's one of the best known of the Cantonese learning sites.

Thanks for the indepth post - you might want to edit out some of the questions and make them seperate posts though - usually increases your chance of getting an answer.

Roddy

[trevelyan]

Out of curiosity... If you had the pinyin in mandarin, how trivial would it be to generate the appropriate Cantonese pronunciation? Is this something that could be easily automated or will it require a lot of manual data entry?

[atitarev]

你係李小姐嗎 is Mandarin? I'm in trouble . . .

Are you aware of Adam Sheik's Cantonese Site? It was a lot of resources' date=' a dictionary and forums. You didn't mention it in your list, but I'd be suprised if you didn't know it, as I think it's one of the best known of the Cantonese learning sites.

Thanks for the indepth post - you might want to edit out some of the questions and make them seperate posts though - usually increases your chance of getting an answer.

Roddy[/quote']

Thanks, Roddy. i am aware of this site, just overlooked in my post. Yes, it would be better to break up the questions.

To Quest:

Thank you too. I was actually copying the text from the Cantonese textbook and as far as I know, whatever goes in Mandarin can be used in Cantonese - the closer to Mandarin, the more formal it gets.

I had trouble understanding 几 in 你几好嘛？ Could you explain?

Anyway, the text was given only to show the format - text, not gif, flash or other types. I didn't ask to correct the text but to share resources with me and other people on this forum..

To HentaiSan (hopefully you read this):

I could not reply to your private message because your setting don't allow you to receive private messages.

Out of curiosity... If you had the pinyin in mandarin, how trivial would it be to generate the appropriate Cantonese pronunciation? Is this something that could be easily automated or will it require a lot of manual data entry

To Trevelyan:

I am also looking for an answer to this question. The dictionaries I provided in the links, plus http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/scripts/wordlist.htm Roddy mentioned can generate romanization for individual characters, not for a phrase or a whole text.

---

I hope someone will reply with some resources - online or personal.

I guess, I am interested in getting audio files matching written Cantonese text as in my original post more than my other questions.

You guys, could you share with me how you enter Cantonese text? Is it possible enter it phonetically on a Western PC? (NJStar is limited in the number of characters and I could get not Chinese (Hong Kong) IME to work!)

[Quest]

I just type Cantonese in mandarin pinyin, even though there are Cantonese input methods out there.

I had trouble understanding 几 in 你几好嘛？ Could you explain?

几＝挺/还 (a degree less than 很)

Out of curiosity... If you had the pinyin in mandarin, how trivial would it be to generate the appropriate Cantonese pronunciation? Is this something that could be easily automated or will it require a lot of manual data entry?

Knowing only the pinyin is often not enough. For example: 心 and 辛 are pronounced sum and sun. 一 and 衣 are yut and yi

你係李小姐嗎 is Mandarin? I'm in trouble . . .

yes you are in 大茶煲。

[atitarev]

To Quest,

Thanks for the post.

Let's take some characters used only in Cantonese: 佢, 係 and 哋.

You might be lucky to know that the first 2 are pronounced as ju4 and xi4 in Mandarin (CEDIC dictionary says these characters don't exist in Mandarin), at least NJStar can handle these characters and you can add them to your user dictionary.

What about the characters NJStar (both Communicator and Word Processor) can't handle?

How do you enter for example character 哋? Which method would you use.

(This character I just pasted, I HAVE NO IDEA, which method to use to input it!)

--

If you don't mind, do you insist that the passage dialogues are incorrect Cantonese?

[skylee]

Let's take some characters used only in Cantonese: 佢' date=' 係 and 哋[/size'].

You might be lucky to know that the first 2 are pronounced as ju4 and xi4 in Mandarin (CEDIC dictionary says these characters don't exist in Mandarin)

係 doesn't exist in Mandarin??? I don't think so. How about 關係?

There are software for Cantonese input (http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-TW&q=%E5%BB%A3%E6%9D%B1%E8%A9%B1%E8%BC%B8%E5%85%A5%E6%B3%95&meta=). I can input 哋 by typing either "dei" or "tei" (as cantonese romanisation is not standardised) and 佢 by typing "kui". Besides there are words used in Cantonese which are in fact proper chinese characters (i.e. not something made up of adding a 口 radical on the left) but seldom used in standard Mandarin nowadays, e.g. 靚.

[Quest]

I use 紫光拼音

[xiaoxiajenny]

紫光拼音 is better

[atitarev]

Thanks for your replies but I think it's going to be difficult for me. 紫光拼音 is only available on Hong Kong sites, which are all in Cantonese. I am only a beginner in Cantonese, can't read the instructions too well. Is it a freeware, shareware? Does it still in 3 months' time? Can "ZiGuang PinYin" (紫光拼音) be used on a Western PC?

The phonetic methods you guys are talking about are useless on Microsoft IME. I have mainland Chinese (simplified), Taiwan IME (ChangJie), which is hard, I don't understand this system and NJStar with missing Cantonese characters.

PRC Chinese IME only accepts simplified characters, Taiwanese ChangJie IME is too hard to understand (I am looking for a tutorial on how to use it) and NJStar is not 100% suitable.

[atitarev]

I found a working download link for 紫光拼音

http://www.tycool.com/ctools.php

I will try it to see what it can doand if I can use it.

[atitarev]

I didn't have any luck with the heaps of little input programs I downloaded.

I am still looking for that program, if it exists. Any advise from someone who actually used such a program would be appreciated. I'll monitor this page for some time, in case someone replies later.

Here are things that I need.

1) Runs on Windows (XP or NT) on a Western PC. Chinese characters are displayed as Chinese characters and not as question marks, underscores or some other funny characters.

Support for Chinese and all required fonts including the Hong Kong character set are installed on my machines.

2) Cantonese characters are entered phonetically - using Jyutping, S. Lau, Yale or other romanization. I don't think I can master CangJie or 5 corners fast enough. (E.g. Cantonese input utility from Hong Kong site).

3) It is designed for the Cantonese characters or it can work for both - either the additional character set is already there or it can be easily added.

For example I want to be able to type in characters: 唔, 冇, 嘅, 哋. (I've got everything I need to enter standard Mandarin - simplified or traditional, it's the additional charactares I have problems with).

Microsoft IME and NJStar can't handle them.

4) It actually works and you don't need any hardware attached

(緯石廣東話拼音 Waisek switches back to English and you can't enter Chinese any more)

(紫光拼音 - Ziguang Pinyin needs additional hardware)

5) It's a freeware, shareware or there is a trial version - I don't want to pay before I try.

6) My limitation is poor Chinese - I need your help in giving the correct link

There are probably no programs with an English interface, I could use with a Chinese one if it's user-friendly. I would appreciate if you give me some guidance how to do this.

I can see a lot of examples of written colloquial Cantonese, there must be an easy way to enter them.

Sorry for the long post.

[skylee]

Have you tried the input software of the "Hong Kong Supplementary Character Set-2001 (HKSCS-2001)"? -> http://www.info.gov.hk/digital21/eng/hkscs/download.html

I have not used it buy you may try.

[atitarev]

Have you tried the input software of the "Hong Kong Supplementary Character Set-2001 (HKSCS-2001)"? -> http://www.info.gov.hk/digital21/eng/hkscs/download.html

I have not used it buy you may try.

I downloaded it some time ago but it needs ChangJie input - something I don't understand how to use.

I am trying Red Dragonfly Input now - doesn't work on Windows NT but works on my Windows XP machine.

[Quest]

http://manual.webshu.com/agile/pro/7,id=2701.htm

it works pretty well for me.

I will translate the instructions for you:

download both:

http://manual.webshu.com/agile/fil/yue.zip

http://manual.webshu.com/agile/fil/imegen.zip

unzip the three files inside yue.zip into c:windowssystem32

unzip imegen.zip and run IMEGEN.EXE

click 浏览, find and select c:windowssystem32yue.MB

click open

then at the bottom click 创建, then keep confirming all further options.

Then you will have a new EN -> CH -> 粤 option.

Also note that some "e" sounds turn into "c", for example nei becomes nci

just take a look at the bottom of that page.

The "a b c d e f " ending tones can be ignored as well, but of course typing them in would narrow the search results.

I believe you can also assign your own pinyin to words and characters using 手工做句.

Overall, it takes some getting use to, but it works fine. I will probably use it myself too.

[Quest]

http://www.cnsd.org/~stardust/CANTON_XP.exe

This seems to work as well, and its input spellings are more "intuitive".

例句：《美(mei) 國(gwok) 內(noi) 華(wa) 達(dat) 州(zau) 勞(lo) 克(hak) 林(lam) 市(si) 一(yat) 間(gan) 賭(do) 場(cheung) 周(zau) 六(luk) 凌(ling) 晨(san) 爆(bau) 發(fat) 電(din) 單(dan) 車(che) 幫(bong) 派(pai) 開(hoi) 槍(cheung) 事(si) 件(gin)，最(jui) 少(siu) 有(yau) 四(sei) 人(yan) 喪(song) 生(sang)，十(sap) 一(yat) 人(yan) 受(sau) 傷(seung)，當(dong) 局(kuk) 正(jing) 調(diu) 查(cha) 是(si) 否(fau) 涉(sip) 及(kap) 惡(ngok) 名(ming) 昭(chiu) 彰(jeung) 的(dik)「地(dei) 獄(yuk) 天(tin) 使(si)」電(din) 單(dan) 車(che) 組(jo) 織(jik)。》

Homepage: http://stardust_2002.tripod.com/

Both have their pros and cons, test them out.

[wai ming]

http://www.cnsd.org/~stardust/CANTON_XP.exe

This seems to work as well' date=' and its input spellings are more "intuitive".

例句：《美(mei) 國(gwok) 內(noi) 華(wa) 達(dat) 州(zau) 勞(lo) 克(hak) 林(lam) 市(si) 一(yat) 間(gan) 賭(do) 場(cheung) 周(zau) 六(luk) 凌(ling) 晨(san) 爆(bau) 發(fat) 電(din) 單(dan) 車(che) 幫(bong) 派(pai) 開(hoi) 槍(cheung) 事(si) 件(gin)，最(jui) 少(siu) 有(yau) 四(sei) 人(yan) 喪(song) 生(sang)，十(sap) 一(yat) 人(yan) 受(sau) 傷(seung)，當(dong) 局(kuk) 正(jing) 調(diu) 查(cha) 是(si) 否(fau) 涉(sip) 及(kap) 惡(ngok) 名(ming) 昭(chiu) 彰(jeung) 的(dik)「地(dei) 獄(yuk) 天(tin) 使(si)」電(din) 單(dan) 車(che) 組(jo) 織(jik)。》

Homepage: http://stardust_2002.tripod.com/

Both have their pros and cons, test them out.

Quest, I read on that site that you need the Chinese version of Windows. Do you know if it still works with the English version?

[Quest]

I use English XP with locale set to PRC.

I've tested both programs on my computer, they both worked.

Here's my review

The first program:

Pros:

ability to input 啲哋瞓嘅嗰 etc

real time character match + word suggestions

flexible -- you can add your own input code to match a character/word/phrase

better overall quality and ease of use

Cons:

input codes deviate slightly from the "standards".

simplified characters only.

The second program:

Pros:

more "intuitive" input codes

compensates for input code variants

Cons:

annoying user interface, you need to hit space to see the search results

and if you type in the input code incorrectly, you need to enter a wrong character then backspace then delete a previous character in order to continue.

traditional characters only without 啲哋瞓嘅嗰 etc..

input variants support means you have to look through more search results for a particular input -- e.g. "gor" would produce both 个 and 过

variants support is inconsistent -- some variants would work on some characters but not on others. For example: "zan" would give you 陣 and 珍 but not 真 -- you need "jan" for that.

[atitarev]

I use English XP with locale set to PRC.

I've tested both programs on my computer' date=' they both worked.

[u']Here's my review[/u]

The first program:

Pros:

ability to input 啲哋瞓嘅嗰 etc

real time character match + word suggestions

flexible -- you can add your own input code to match a character/word/phrase

better overall quality and ease of use

Cons:

input codes deviate slightly from the "standards".

simplified characters only.

The second program:

Pros:

more "intuitive" input codes

compensates for input code variants

Cons:

annoying user interface, you need to hit space to see the search results

and if you type in the input code incorrectly, you need to enter a wrong character then backspace then delete a previous character in order to continue.

traditional characters only without 啲哋瞓嘅嗰 etc..

input variants support means you have to look through more search results for a particular input -- e.g. "gor" would produce both 个 and 过

variants support is inconsistent -- some variants would work on some characters but not on others. For example: "zan" would give you 陣 and 珍 but not 真 -- you need "jan" for that.

Thanks very much, Quest! I'll try the imegen/yue input method. Had some trouble with Canton_Xp initially. Maybe I did something wrong. I'll ask you if it doesn't work. The setup didn't seem to work.

With the first program, I wasn't able to input 嘅 (GE) (possessive particle) - I tried both GE and GC, nothing came up. Otherwise, it looks good! I tried some other Cantonese characters.

I'll try to review it all on the weekend.

緯石輸入法 Waisek IME:

It works for some time, then switches back to English and I can't turn it back on, especially if I click on a side bar for a second character.

I have also installed Red Dragonfly 紅蜻蜓粵語拼音詞語輸入法. To enter 嘅 GE I used it. Also, note sure how to enter a character, which doesn't appear on the first list (1 to 9), arrows and page down doesn't help.

Waisek is here

http://waisek.chinesenames.com/Download.shtml

Red Dragonfly is here

http://www.hku.hk/linguist/staff/kkl_cime.htm

hmm, the GE character has disappeared.

I'll probably use your first program, could you tell me how to enter 嘅 GE?