3rd tone + 2nd tone trouble

[ChTTay]

I just can't get the tones right in words that go from 3rd to 2nd tone. I just recorded myself saying a word like 美国 eight times and then listened back. My girlfriend (Chinese) said they were all wrong. She then drilled the word a load of times and maybe 1 out of 10 I got it right and that was the first or second time I said it after hearing it.  The worst thing is I can't hear why It's wrong.

 

In daily life, actually, this hasn't been a massive problem but I do order 奶茶 quite a lot and I hate saying it because I know I'm getting it wrong. They usually understand but repeat it back to me to make sure.

 

I also find if I say the first character then leave a gap of about half a second then I can usually say the second character correctly. At least, more often than if I try the word in one go.

 

This problem has been on my radar for a while.

 

Should I be asking my tutor to drill this every lesson until I get it?

 

Any advice appreciated :wall :wall

 

 

[歐博思]

recording?

[hedwards]

I'll recommend taking a look at this, http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2008/01/21/seeing-the-tones-of-mandarin-chinese-with-praat , It will help you to establish whether or not you're making the correct sound.

 

I'm curious do you have the same problem with 2nd, 2nd tone as well? And are you hearing it when other people make the 3rd, 2nd tone? If you're not hearing it, then you'll have to focus on that first, as it's tough to produce if you can't hear it to begin with.

 

Other than that, I'd recommend practicing it over and over, even if you have to over exaggerate it at first. You'll sound a bit like a robot, but make sure that you're also pushing yourself to do it more quickly in sentences as well.

 

I can't claim my tones are the greatest, but they are good enough that people don't seem to have a hard time understanding what I'm saying. And if you practice specifically this point even just 5 minutes every day, you'll find before too long that you're not having to work as hard at it.

[lechuan]

Once I discovered that the third tone is really a low flat tone in the majority of cases (except when by itself, or sometimes at the end of a sentence, where it is pronounced like a falling-rising tone), it got much easier to pronounce, and hear properly. Makes the 3rd tone make much more sense in combination with other tones.

 

YangYang explains it well here, including the 3-2 combo.

 

Good posts on sinosplice and hacking chinese as well.

[Hofmann]

Post a recording, and hopefully someone will be able to describe the problem accurately and what you can do to fix it.

[ChTTay]

Lechuan's advice seems to make sense to me. I think my 3-2 usually ends up more like a 2-2. I also read the hacking chinese article.

 

With this in mind, here is a recording. I said some 3-2 words in sentences.

 

 

Sound Recording.wma

[Hofmann]

I don't hear anything that would make you unintelligible. Actually I would not notice anything if I were not paying attention. The second tone could rise more though.

[ChTTay]

I was trying really hard here.

Guess there's hope if I keep practicing

Thanks

[Clef Ment]

@ Lechuan: very interesting, thank you.