purpose of 来 in a "把 sentence"

[metlx]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of 来  in the following sentences?

 

• 我 把 我的 姓名 写 下来 了。I wrote my last name down.

• 我 把 那 件 事 说 出来 了。

Wouldn't omitting 来 convey the same meaning? If so, what's the point of adding it in the sentence?

写下来 and 说出来 mean [write down+to me] and [speak out+to me]. If I write the name down, shouldn't  写下去 make more sense?

 

The copied sentences are from the chinese grammar wiki page by the way (http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/%22Ba%22_sentence)

[Guest realmayo]

See http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/40683-problems-with-%E4%B8%8B%E6%9D%A5and%E4%B8%8B%E5%8E%BB/

[Angelina]

Omitting 来 will not convey the same meaning.

This is the topic of my thesis, I am still working on it and I hope I can work out what the rule is.

Basically, 来 has a grammatical function here, not lexical. It's a little bit like "have" in "Have you eaten today?". In this case, "have" does not mean possesion.

[anonymoose]

写下来 and 说出来 mean [write down+to me] and [speak out+to me]. If I write the name down, shouldn't  写下去 make more sense?

 

Language is flexible. In fact, you can also say 说出去 and 写下去. As you have correctly pointed out, using 来 implies towards the speaker, and 去 implies away from the speaker. However, in real usage, people are often not fastidious about using the "correct" one. In fact, to a large extent, it just depends on habit. It is more habitual to say 说出来 than 说出去, so former is predominant, but the latter is not wrong.

 

As for 写下来, you can also say 写下去. However, I don't think the 下来 here refers so much to direction, but rather to the crystallisation of a state, similar to 停下来 and so on. So you cannot think of 去 in 写下去 as the opposite of 来 in 写下来. But certainly, 写下去 would also make sense.

[Angelina]

However, in real usage, people are often not fastidious about using the "correct" one. In fact, to a large extent, it just depends on habit.

 

I don't agree. People are fastidious about using the correct one. If you say something that sounds off, a native speaker of Mandarin will easily be able to point it out. The only difference between native speakers of Mandarin and English is that aspect in Mandarin has not been studied extensively (like tense in English) and the average Chinese person does not know much about it. They are using it the right way, but they don't know how to explain it. In China they call it 语感.  

 

Yes, 来 in 写下来  does not refer to direction. However, 写下来 and 写下去 are not interchangeable. There is a rule. I haven't been able to tell what this rule is yet. 

[anonymoose]

People aren't fastidious in English when using "come" and "go", or "take" and "bring", so I don't see why you would think that Chinese speakers are fastidious. At least that's not my experience. (And to be clear, when I say not fastidious, I don't mean that no speakers pay any attention to the correct usage, but that a significant proportion use what may be considered to be a technically incorrect usage.)

[Talk2China]

I think perhaps you may want to view '下来' or '出来' as one word instead of a combination of two words. Both of them can be put after a verb to indicate the action is completed. 

写下 in the phrase stands for 'to write down', and 来 reveals this action is done. Nothing to do with the direction.

说出来 is a slightly different case. 出来 can indicate either the direction of the words' movement (from inside to outside) or the result of the action (finished).

[Angelina]

Because using 来 and 去 the wrong way (messing up the aspect) would mean you are saying something like "Yesterday, I will be eating apples." in English.

[tooironic]

Afraid I can't help you with the grammar question, but thought I should point out that technically 姓名 is 姓 + 名, so 姓名 should be translated as "full name" not "last name". "Last name" is 姓 or 姓氏; "given name" is 名 or 名字.

 

[Angelina]

It's not a mistake OP made. Ah the 材料 can have major mistakes sometimes. Poor beginers.

[Angelina]

Like this

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/46839-v起来-structure/

Terrible terrible approach. Sigh.