You wanted me to come back this forum and tell my experience, should I?

[Angelina]

What about the behavior of the people he meets? What if he tells other foreigners about his problems and they say they are having a blast in China and don't care about his issues? Chinese people too, they are probably not as welcoming towards Venezuelans as they are towards Americans. Of course he should try to be positive and should not be hating all the people who are having fun. 

[陳德聰]

Most Chinese people don't even know what a "Venezuela" is.

[Pokarface]

@陳德聰 Sounds like the musical instrument they used in South Africa during Football World Cup, Vuvuzela

 

I have mixed opinions. Sujeto, you were being told that U.S. beats many countries' education systems, but you were fighting against the advice and telling them they were PRO U.S, now it's the other way around and you seem to think that the forum has a positive view towards China. They did trolled you hard by telling you the master's program was going to be taught in English though. I guess now everything there is to do, is to go with the flow and get the most out of it or go back home.

 

You seem to have solid engineering core knowledge already, why not work on your interview skills? you might need to lie on an interview (about your Harbin experience since I'm sure nobody would hire you if you just shove negative experiences right on their faces), and so what? You'll still learn a lot of work related activities on the spot once you are hired. Try to make the most out of your education either being academically or just getting yucky with the guys (drunk and hanging out with your pals). You might be able to hook up with 1 or 2 cute Chinese girls, just chill down.

[Shelley]

Out of curiosity i looked up Venezuela  委内瑞拉 Wei3 nei4 rui4 la1.

[jbradfor]

 

Chinese people too, they are probably not as welcoming towards Venezuelans as they are towards Americans.

Could you expand on why you think that is?  Offhand I would have assumed the opposite would be true, given the poor state of relations between the governments of China and USA, and the closer ties between Venezuela and China, so I'm curious.

[Angelina]

Hm

 

1. Language partners. Not that many Chinese people are existed to meet people who are not from English speaking countries. I don't want to generalize, but it is much more likely for an American person to be chatted up by Chinese people trying to improve their English. Venezuela, not so much. How many language partners is he likely to find?

 

2. Girls. If they don't know where Venezuela is, do you think they would want to move there one day?

 

Maybe he can try telling people he is from 美洲.

[Angelina]

You might be able to hook up with 1 or 2 cute Chinese girls

 

I don't think it's that easy if you don't have a US passport. 

[Demonic_Duck]

You assume that Chinese girls only hook up with foreign guys if they have US passports. Where does that assumption come from? I've never observed that to be the case. Nor is it true that all Chinese girls are looking to get married as soon as possible.

 

Even the idea that Chinese people only want to speak English with native speakers isn't really true, although there's often some degree of "you have to look foriegn/western" which is kinda dumb.

[hedwards]

@Demonic_Duck, I'm curious about that as well. That certainly is one motivation, but it's hardly the only motivation. If you go to the country side from a city, I'm pretty sure that even Chinese benefit a bit from that as they're likely rich compared with the locals and could represent a means to leaving the country for the city.

But, I do think that one has to realize that white people in China are automatically kind of mysterious and exotic and that's probably a factor. I also seem to recall a thread topic last year where somebody was asking about Chinese women basically using foreigners as status markers rather than necessarily looking to marry them and leave China. I could be misremembering that though, it was many moons ago.

 

I never delved deeply enough into that to have an informed opinion, so perhaps somebody else has more thoughts.

[Angelina]

The main reason probably is that not that many people in China know where Venezuela is.

 

There is a lot of prejudice people from rural areas of China face, too. This is a serious topic, I just wanted to mention that maybe, just maybe, our experiences in China are not exactly the same. For example, Sujeto might not be meeting ten possible language partners a day. 

[jbradfor]

@Angelina, I agree those points are valid, especially the first one, maybe less for the second.  [i think there are a lot more Chinese that want to learn/practice English than there are Chinese that want to marry out.]  But I don't think either of those would explain why a Venezuelan would feel less welcome than an American, and the OP certainly didn't feel welcome.  [How much of that is due to his being a Venezuelan versus due to his own behavior I cannot say, since I was not present.]

 

EDIT: Angelina just posted above me as I was writing this.  Again, true, but Sujeto's problems seemed to go way beyond not meeting language partners....  And it seems Sujeto didn't even get to the point in conversations where he could tell people where he was from.

[Angelina]

I didn't say a Venezuelan would feel less welcome, I said locals might not be that welcoming towards him, i.e. no "OMG OMG a laowai from America". 

 

Of course he said some bad things about other foreigners, maybe it's his personality, but we can't put all the blame on him. It takes two to tango   Yes he was judging other foreigners, but we, the other foreigners, should not judge him, too. 

 

I feel the same way Lu feels, I am glad he actually made it all the way to China. He should try harder to talk to the people around him now. 

[hedwards]

@Angelina, in my experience, the Chinese assumed I was German because I'm ethnically German, it wasn't until they found out where I worked or where I was born that they knew I that I'm American.

 

I'm still not sure how they seemed to know that I'm of German ancestry as I certainly wouldn't have expected them to pick up on that.

[Angelina]

I don't know, maybe your name is Heinrich or something. 

 

Anyway, I was just toying with the idea. Culture isn't everything. I know a guy from Nepal who is extremely happy here. He has a bubbly personality and does not let cultural differences bother him. 

[Silent]

Could you expand on why you think that is?  Offhand I would have assumed the opposite would be true, given the poor state of relations between the governments of China and USA, and the closer ties between Venezuela and China, so I'm curious.

US-China relations are politics and has little to do with the man in the street. Virtually everywhere I go people clearly distinguishes between political views and popular views.  I don't know how Sujeto looks, but I've the impression there's preference for rich white caucasians. Being from venezuela it's likely he is a bit darker and a bit less rich hence I would not be surprised if the attitude toward Sujeto would be somewhat different then for the average European. Nevertheless I think he's likely still seen as a rich foreigner an attitude is of course very (more) important too.

[pancake]

In Harbin, anyone who is "white" is more likely to be thought of as Russian by the locals. From my experience many Chinese have a very tenuous grasp of European geography (people confusing my home country 瑞典 with 瑞士 became a running joke when I was a student in Harbin). For this reason, I suspect that their knowledge of the various countries of 拉美 might also possibly be lacking. From sujeto's writings, I get the impressions that his negative experiences stem more from immaturity and unrealistic expectations than anything. I get the image of a useless apparatchik who didn't realise that communism died in 1989, with the exception of miserable places like North Korea, Cuba and (yes!) Venezuela.

[Angelina]

I get the image of a useless apparatchik who didn't realise that communism died in 1989, with the exception of miserable places like North Korea, Cuba and (yes!) Venezuela.

 

 

 

Just like you think that North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela are miserable, Sujeto thinks that the US and NATO (OTAN in Spanish, rhymes with Satan) are evil. Therefore, he decided to go to China even though as a gifted engineer he could have gone anywhere (MIT, Caltech). He expected China to be some sort of Communist heaven and is now disappointed. Maybe he should go to Sweden to see what a real Communist heaven looks like. 

 

I hope you get my idea. It is the same mechanism at work. Maybe Cuba and Venezuela have their set of problems, but to think these are miserable places is as dangerous as to think that the US is evil while the Chinese are our Communist brothers.

[pancake]

If sujeto could have gone to MIT but chose HIT instead then he is, I am sorry but there is no way of putting this nicely, a <insert harsh term of derision here>. I seem to have hit a nerve with my comments on communism, so I will not get involved except to note that the kind of relativism you engage in is a sign of intellectual laziness.

 

EDIT: Politeness.

[Angelina]

It's not his fault, we are all being brainwashed more or less. Didn't I say that in his mother tongue NATO rhymes with Satan? What if he was brought up with the idea that NATO is Satan? Just like you were brought up with the idea that North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela are useless apparatchiks. Why would you feel this way about him if he chose HIT instead of MIT? Do you think you know the ultimate truth? 

[Silent]

 

If sujeto could have gone to MIT but chose HIT instead then he is, I am sorry but there is no way of putting this nicely, a <insert harsh term of derision here>. I seem to have hit a nerve with my comments on communism, so I will not get involved except to note that the kind of relativism you engage in is a sign of intellectual laziness.

As often I think this says more about the author then the people written about.

 

Both MIT and HIT I know only from reputation, but I'm sure both have their own pro's and cons (even if they are strongly skewed) Without proper assessment of what someone values there's no way you can beforehand claim one is better then the other. But of course it's easier to project your own idea's and values onto someone else and to jump to conclusions then to properly evaluate, or to put in in your own words, it's easier to engage in intellectual laziness.