Difference between 然后 and 还有

[Photons]

I know they both mean "and" and 然后 means and then.  When can they be used interchangeably can they not?

[陳德聰]

I don't think they can ever be used interchangeably. 然後 only means "and then", and 還有 means "and also there is/are". I don't think either of them mean "and".

[hedwards]

Not to muddy things, but there's also about 12 other ways of saying and. Not that it's a particularly good source, but Google Translate gives a list of about 12 or so terms that translate from English and into Chinese.

 

The latter is probably best thought of as "and additionally" to help keep it straight from the various other options there are that roughly translate to and. If I'm not mistaken, 然後 is probably more accurately thought of as then rather than and.

[陳德聰]

Thought it was important not to confuse beginners.

[Shelley]

Best to think of it as 然後 means after,

 

還有 means furthermore, in addition to, also.

[hedwards]

@4, this is consistent with my previous statements. The OP is asking about this and so is probably ready for the information. Beginner materials I've seen mostly just ignore "and" completely, I'm not sure how widely the practice is practiced with beginner materials.

 

In this case the distinction is clear, the words are very different and the OP hasn't said that he doesn't get it. Now, if the OP replies that he hasn't gotten it, then it would be the time to consider if the distinction is important enough to attempt further explanation, drop the word completely or accept it as close enough. Ultimately, the more similar the words are, the more complicated the rule explaining the difference and the less ambiguous the substitution is the less useful it is to be particular.

 

But in any case, if it isn't affecting comprehension, then it's not worth worrying about until the student's ability has progressed to the point where those things are the main problem. In most cases, the words that get glossed over come up again in context and with a larger vocabulary and better understanding of grammar the meaning does come across. You can waste a huge amount of time and energy trying to make words stick that are of minimal utility that would be easier to understand and remember later on with more experience reading and listening to the language.

 

I hope that this better explains the point as I'm afraid I'm not sure how else I can explain it. Most of the time, it's a subjective distinction based upon the student and the particular word. The more experience I have teaching, the better I am at knowing when to just give up on the word and not waste the student's time when there are more important things to teach.

[tooironic]

然后 and 还有 don't usually translate as "and".

 

The most common meaning of 然后 is "then" or "after that". 今天上午我去图书馆看书，然后下午我去食堂吃晚饭。In the morning I went to the library to read. Then in the afternoon I went to the dining hall to have dinner.

 

还有 is easy to translate once you understand that it is made up of two characters - 还 ("still") + 有 ("have").

我还有一些问题要问。I still have some questions to ask.

除了这些，还有吗？Are there still some left besides these?

那不仅有美丽的风景，还有热情的人民。Not only is there beautiful scenery there, but the people are inviting as well.

我的衣兜里，有钱，有卫生纸，还有钥匙。In my pocket there is money, toilet paper and a key.

能不能告诉我喝茶的好处，还有喝茶的坏处？Could you tell me about the benefits of drinking tea, as well as the disadvantages?

 

As you can see from the examples above, there is no exact word for 还有 in English; it is translated differently according to context. The most important thing is you understand its function in Chinese.

[roddy]

Photons, how come you never say thanks to the people who help you?