Make the most of a short course in China

[Claudio]

Hello everybody, I am new to this forum.

I live in England and I have been studying Mandarin for a while now.

I have bought my first chinese learning book maybe more than four years ago but I have really started studying it properly only a year and half ago, taking lesson with a private tutor, first one and then two hours a week.
I also irregularly listen to chinesepod.com podcast lessons.
I think I would classify myself as an 'advanced beginner'.

For work I've travelled once to Beijing (two weeks) and once in Shanghai (one week).This was before I really started studying the language.

At this stage I feel a bit stuck with my progress and I'd like to give it a boost by doing some studying in China.
Work and family (and money!) do not allow me to take more than two weeks, so ta make the most of a short time span I was thinking of taking an intensive 1 to 1 course with a private school, possibly in Beijing.
I see that a couple of schools setup homestays with chinese families which seems a good idea to increase the "full immersion" pressure that is needed to get useful results, especially in such a short period.

Has anybody got any experience (positive or negative) with a with a similar arrangement, i.e. a short course with a private schools in Beijing or elsewhere, possibly with homestay?

I don't need a full review of a school (especially from a school representative, I have already read them all in this forums and elsewhere!) but just any quick information to avoid the worst duds among the schools and any other general suggestion to get the most of a short learning experience in China.

Thanks

[ChTTay]

I've never done what you outline ... but i have lived in China for a while and travelled around a fair bit. I'd be tempted to do it in a smaller city than Beijing. A city where Chinese people might be more curious about foreigners and, as a result, open to talking to you more, for a longer period of time. Kunming springs to mind.

 

I used to live in a small Chinese city and the majority of people you meet would try engage you if you spoke any Chinese to them. In Beijing this happens a lot less frequently and for less duration.

[johnk]

Hi,

I have done what you are suggesting twice.

The first time was two weeks with Keats school in Kunming and the second time was two weeks with 1to1 Mandarin in Harbin.

The keats thread is here.

And the 1to1 thread is here.

Both schools are excellent and the in-school enviornments were great.

 

As you hint in your post, the big difference is in the out of school enviornment. Interacting with real people outside school can greatly enhance the experience. My trick was going to parks and markets and chatting to anyone who would talk to me. I often found it difficult to understand  people in Kunming. Even when they were speaking Mandarin, I found the  accents difficult. Whereas in Harbin, everyone spoke fairly standard Mandarin. I could evesdrop on conversations - which was kind of fun. I had regular chats with stall holders in the local market and with a couple of street sweepers in Harbin. There was also a family whose 5 year old walked up to me in KFC in harbin and asked me 'What are you doing". I ended up teaching her English and discussing stuff with her mother every evening for a week. However it may be that my Mandarin was much better by the time I went to Harbin.

 

All that said, I am planning my next trip to China and I am seriously considering returning to Kunming.

 

A lot depends on you and the kind of person you are. Retirees in parks make great language partners, they have time on their hands and they are usually curious about foreigners. It also helped that the last time in 1to1, the staff decided that my Chinese was good enough and they refused to speak to me in English. :-)

I have no experince on attending a school in Beijing, but I would be inclined to agree with ChTTay. Beijing is a 'busy' city. So it is harder to find ad hoc language partners.

 

So overall I guess I am recommending 1to1 in Harbin.

[Claudio]

johnk, thank you for the info.

I had been looking for smaller cities. I talked with my local chinese tutor about a school in Guilin that seemed interesting (by looking at the website) and she said that the local accent could be a problem.

So I guess my focus on Beijing was about trying to have an environment where the locals (not just the teachers at the school) speak more or less 'standard' Mandarin (whatever that may mean!).

[michaelS]

I've just started at a school in Guilin, probably the same one you've been looking at. Classes start on Monday, so I can't really speak to that yet, but would just say that so far 99% of the people I've spoken to have been teachers and students speaking very standard Mandarin, even if in some cases they are native Cantonese speakers. Lots of the teachers here are from up north anyway,

 

First impression is also that doing a homestay is not a great idea... plus the on-site accommodation is pretty nice

[ChTTay]

"at a school in Guilin"

 

Is it a secret school?

[mackie1402]

From when I was self studying in England, to when I self studied in China, I never got a huge improvement in my Chinese. It was just kind of a slow but steady progress. Then I decided to study a summer course at University in Hangzhou. As it was a summer course, only 3 of us were in the class compared to a normal 20 or so. My Chinese rapidly increased during these 2 months! Definitely plan on doing this again next summer!

 

However, if I was in your shoes with family and limited money/time situation, I think if I spent 2 weeks in Beijing (which is already an expensive trip with the flight from the UK) I'd like to just enjoy the environment and culture. Two weeks is a pretty short time! I'm sure with 2 weeks of 1 to 1 intensive lessons you'll see a nice improvement, but after such a long trip and expensive trip, you don't want to go back with a little improvement in Chinese and not enjoyed the time you spent in China.

 

If there was a reliable teacher that you could get to show you about, so you can take in the sights and culture while learning, that'd be great!

[Claudio]

Well I'm not expecting that after just two weeks in China, however good the school and the teachers, my mandarin will magically have improved to fluency!

I'm just hoping that I can get a little boost from the immersion and also an added stimulus to continue studying. Managing to interact, however badly, with people in shops, restaurants, parks etc can give you a real feeling of the usefulness of learning a language.

 

Regarding what you say about Beijing vs smaller cities, I guess what you mean is "you are going halfway through the world, you might as well visit the main attraction instead of going to some backwater city".

I can partially agree with this position but this time I would be more focused on learning the language so it would be less important (and often smaller places have their charm as well!)

 

And then hopefully this might be just the first of a few study trips so I might go to Beijing another time (I've been once, before starting studying Manadrin, and really liked it)

[ChTTay]

"Backwater" cities tend not to have private language schools for foreigners anyway, I'd hardly call Harbin or Kunming backwater cities. Far from it.

As a few of us have already said, the main thing about Beijing is it's harder to get practice outside of your classes.

It seems like Harbin might be the place to go first according to JohnK. Guilin is a beautiful place though if we can find out the name of the school mentioned above.

[abcdefg]

Kunming has worked out well for me.

 

To get the most from a very short course of study I would for sure select some place that could teach you one-to-one. The second thing I would do is line up a language partner for practice before you arrive.

 

If you were to come to Kunming, for example, you could start reading the classified ads in GoKunming. Quite a few Chinese university students post there when they want to improve their spoken English. You could set up a language exchange to supplement what you study in class. (By all means read up on the pitfalls of language exchange here in these forums beforehand.)

 

If you don't want to do a language exchange, at least line up a local Chinese "activity partner" with whom you can hang out and do sports or whatever you like in the way of non-academic activities. GoKunming has those ads too, or you could place your own. They are free.

 

The trick will be to hit the ground running. Good advance planning will be essential. You won't have the luxury of just lazing along and hoping things eventually happen by magic.

 

And try your best to avoid the urge to just stay in a clique with other foreign students. Push the boundaries of your comfort zone. Take a secret pledge to use as little English as possible.

 

It's all too easy to just piss away 2 weeks before you know it is gone. Don't let that happen. Don't waste your time and your money. Rapid improvement will require hard work and long hours.

 

Sorry if this sounds kind of "preachy," but I have been in your shoes not all that long ago. 

[edelweis]

Is it generally possible / a good idea to have classes everyday (including weekends) during such short stays?

[edelweis]

oh, I see the OP lives in England, so I will add this question in this thread:

does anyone have advice about how to manage the jet lag when traveling from Western Europe to Eastern China? (it's 6-7 hours earlier at the destination).

Is it better to take a morning or evening plane?

Is it better to take classes in the morning or in the afternoon?

Once you're in China, are the first few days of classes wasted somehow because you're not awake enough?

How many days after landing do you recommend starting classes?

Would you recommend keeping an intermediate rhythm (like waking up around 10-11) instead of going fully native for a two week stay?

 

(I am not a great traveller... China is the only place I've ever been to that isn't in a neighbouring timezone, and the jet lag was very painful... but it was for work, not for study)

[ChTTay]

There are a couple of studies, and news articles based on them, that show not eating from a certain point before your flight, at all during your flight, and to a point after can help "reset" your clock faster (by up to 2 days) than if you just ate as normal. Google it and I'm sure it will crop up. I saw this on a BBC show and online somewhere (perhaps also the BBC).

Personally, I've found a good way is to not "give in" to your jet lagged desire to sleep. If it's 8am wherever you are, get up and go do something. Don't sleep in until 2pm. Equally, don't go to bed at 6pm. If you can't sleep, a massage can help relax you and they are pretty cheap in China. If you give in and just sleep when you're sleepy you will drag out the jet lag even longer.

I have heard of people moving slowly toward the target time zone when at home. So you would adjust the time you get up/go to bed by an hour a day a week before you go or something. Then when you arrive your body clock is nearer that times one.

[abcdefg]

Personally, I've found a good way is to not "give in" to your jet lagged desire to sleep. If it's 8am wherever you are, get up and go do something. Don't sleep in until 2pm.

 

I agree with what ChTTay said. In addition, when I arrive at my destination, I try to get outside and be physically active in bright daylight and sunshine during the daytime instead of sitting in a dimly-lit hotel room reading a book.

 

I seem to recall that the light does something beneficial to the pineal gland, and activity helps reset the body's biorhythms, though I'm rusty on the actual science of it.

[edelweis]

Thanks guys. The problem with short stays is that you have to adapt twice in a short time. I will look up the eating thing...

[Claudio]

I want to thank everybody. I've got some really useful information.

The Harbin option seems very interesting, maybe a little later in the year when the weather it's not so cold and it's easier to find unsuspecting pensioners in the parks to pester with your attempts of speaking Mandarin!

 

I'll keep the forum posted on what I decide to do.

[abcdefg]

I spent a summer in Harbin several years ago and liked it a lot.

[laurenth]

Hello, Claudio. My configuration is much the same as yours. I'd been studying Chinese for a few years in Europe and had never set foot in China. Then my wife (who's an angel) offered to keep the (then) 3 kids for 2 weeks, so I could go to China and learn some more Chinese. She did that twice, with a 2-year interval. Did I say she's an angel?

The first time, I registered with a school in Beijing. The school was good. I got some very intensive high-quality classes for 2 weeks - but I felt a bit frustrated after my stay in Beijing. Why? Because I was sitting in a cramped class from 9 am to 4 pm, Saturday included. Between classes, most interactions were with foreign students who were happy to use some English to relax (many were staying in Beijing for months, so they thought they could afford some English here and there). Once school was over, I used to rush to the places I wanted to visit but it was late (going from point to point in Beijing can take quite some time) and many places were closed. And I had a ton of homework, which I considered important to do as thoroughly as I could.  The result is that my stay was very interesting, no doubt, and very intense, but slightly frustrating. Note that I had chosen not to take the homestay option, which may have been a mistake.

The second time, I didn't take any class. I could see more places (北京，曲阜, 泰山，西安) and talk with more Chinese people (and fail to understand them).

So, IMHO, if you can only go for two weeks, go out and see as much of the country as you can,  try to talk with Chinese people in restaurants, parks and hotels, while shopping,  drinking tea, watching puppet theatres, getting voluntarily lost and asking your way, buying books and bus tickets, etc. - but don't take classes.  You can take classes in Europe. You can even more or less simulate immersion in Europe (TV, radio, books, etc).  And, you'll save money to buy more books and dvds that are hard to find in Europe and that you can use for years thereafter.

Edelweis, about the jet lag, I didn't feel it at all, because my brain was filled to the brim with adrenaline: I knew I wouldn't have many opportunities to go to China. The first time, I arrived on Sunday morning and was attending class on Monday morning. No problem. From Brussels, the daily flight to Beijing leaves in the afternoon and arrives in the early morning, so you don't have the opportunity to sleep. The plane back, however, leaves late in the evening, so you can sleep a bit before you arrive.

[michaelS]

Is it a secret school?

 

Guilin is a beautiful place though if we can find out the name of the school mentioned above.

 

Hi ChTTay, if you're still reading this thread, I didn't really want to talk about a school while I was still at it, and potentially have teachers or managers at the school see my comments. (I'm sure you could have googled 'guilin'+'chinese'+'school' or something like that, to be fair)

 

Anyway, the school is CLI, Chinese Language Institute - I've posted up a long review here

 

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