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Intimate relationships other than marriage in China


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It’s with considerable trepidation that I open this can of worms because I’ve seen over the years here that such discussions sooner or later can get rather ugly. But I’m stuck, and am seeking advice from my local Chinese friends and thought I might as well do the same here.

 

Here’s the story. I’ve been seeing a local woman for 2.5 years here in Kunming. She’s 25 and I am much older. We get along well, enjoy each other’s company, but now I would like to be able to spend more time together. She has a demanding job that requires 12 or 13 hours a day. She likes the work and makes good pay.

 

I first suggested that she try to cut back her hours so we can do normal boyfriend-girlfriend things more frequently, such as having a nice meal, going to a movie, taking long-weekend trips for which I would of course pick up the tab. I also really enjoy it when she is able to sleep over, and wish that could happen more often.

 

She says the boss won’t let her do that for a number of reasons. It’s all or nothing there for the staff; a rigid and long-standing policy.

 

Here’s the tough part. If I were younger, I would propose marriage. But with a large age difference I don’t think it would be fair. I cannot give her children and honestly swear to take care of her forever, including when she is old, gray and feeble. (I will be six feet under the ground by then.)

 

She wants very badly to buy a house (apartment) in Kunming and move her parents here from their remote impoverished village. She also is putting a younger sister through college. She’s a responsible and hard-working young lady. Doesn’t have much formal education, but is doing the best that she can.

 

What I have proposed as an alternative to marriage is for her to give me one year of her life. I have offered to pay her living expenses plus the same amount of money per month that she currently earns plus 25% that could go towards buying a house. Her father is not in good health, and she is currently the main wage earner for the whole extended family.

 

I have added that if during “our year” another guy should come along who she thinks would make a good “real and forever" husband, I would just step aside and give her my blessing even though it might be emotionally difficult. I’m mature enough to be able to keep that promise, though I would prefer that it didn’t happen.

 

We have settled on a figure that would allow her to resign from her job after Spring Festival and she’s interested in the possibility, though she makes no pretense of being madly in love and doing this with stars in her eyes. I appreciate her honesty.

 

It would be sort of a business arrangement between two people who like each other a lot. That’s OK with me, since I’m basically a cynical old bachelor, divorced and living alone for the past 10 or 15 years. I have no dependents and a decent amount of savings plus a retirement package that’s adequate for two.

 

But we reached an impasse yesterday over the method of funding. She wants me to pay her the whole year’s amount up front in one lump sum. She says this will let her make a good down payment on the house she wants to buy, whereas paying her monthly would not.

 

I can see this as being kind of like a dowry, and realize that is customary in some circles here even today. But I worry about losing the whole bundle if for whatever reason things didn’t work out as hoped. I’ve been around the block more than once and am not naïve about such matters.

 

Not to belabor this already long story, but I’ve also offered to help her acquire additional practical vocational education that might be of use to her down the road. I would pay for her studies in a field of her choice. Plus I would fund professional English lessons if she were so inclined. (Although that’s not a requirement.)

 

Secretly I do hope she would find something constructive to take up her time instead of watching daytime soaps and playing majiang.

 

She has not traveled at all in her young life (no time and no money) and I would like to show her some of the world. Open her eyes to its beauty and wonder. It would give me great joy to assist her in a year of growth and discovery. This isn’t entirely altruistic; it would be fun for me too.

 

Please don’t accuse me of just being a dirty old man trying to take advantage of a helpless young flower. It truly is more than that, though I have no real way to convince any doubters.

 

Thanks for listening and I welcome your constructive suggestions and comments.

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Maybe she has it. I am not saying to give up, my suggestion is to look for that sparkle in her eyes when looking for an answer. 

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I don't think you can read that from your post.  I read that as just being she doesn't have any misconceptions about what this year will mean to both of you.

I remember from an earlier post several months back talking about how she was being match-made with another guy, with a stable career and other things, so if she's still with you and seriously considering a year off together, I think it's fair to say there must be some spark there.

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You are right, Imron. That's the same girl. She rejected that chap even though her parents thought he was completely suitable (house, car, government job.)

 

Like Angelina suggests, I'll try to get a better read as to where her heart really is at this point in time.

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Maybe a starting point is to work out how her situation differs from the norm, whatever that is: if you were a married Chinese businessman who wasn't going to divorce, but the two of you liked each other and you were happy to use some of your money to support her, then how would things stand with regards to buying a flat, money-up-front, and so on. Is she benchmarking her situation against any current Chinese norm? Or is it more that you two are both making it up as you go along and she might feel upset by the comparison? As you say, you're asking your Chinese friends, so hopefully they can provide some useful context.

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Do you work currently? If you're full-time and she's essentially doing nothing for the year, that's bound to cause tension. That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but things are almost certain not to work out if she takes the "daytime soaps and majiang" route.

 

If you're retired, then that's a bit different, although obviously you'd still want to make sure you both have your own activities to be doing so you'll be able to get some breathing space when needed.

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I first suggested that she try to cut back her hours so we can do normal boyfriend-girlfriend things more frequently, such as having a nice meal, going to a movie, taking long-weekend trips for which I would of course pick up the tab. I also really enjoy it when she is able to sleep over, and wish that could happen more often.

 

What I have proposed as an alternative to marriage is for her to give me one year of her life. I have offered to pay her living expenses plus the same amount of money per month that she currently earns plus 25% that could go towards buying a house.

How did it go from more sleepovers and trips out of town to quitting her job, living expenses, plus a salary? It seems a big change from the original premise.

How come you didn't propose something more modest, like paying her rent while she worked fewer hours?

 

We have settled on a figure that would allow her to resign from her job after Spring Festival and she’s interested in the possibility, though she makes no pretense of being madly in love and doing this with stars in her eyes. I appreciate her honesty.

But we reached an impasse yesterday over the method of funding. She wants me to pay her the whole year’s amount up front in one lump sum. She says this will let her make a good down payment on the house she wants to buy, whereas paying her monthly would not.

What are your biggest concerns now (as it appears to be more than just an idea now that you two have already discussed it openly)? If it's just the timing of the payment, it seems small quibbles in the scheme of things. Do it in two or four payments if that makes you feel more secure, knowing that doing it in installments would make it feel even more transactional.
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What I have proposed as an alternative to marriage is for her to give me one year of her life. I have offered to pay her living expenses plus the same amount of money per month that she currently earns plus 25% that could go towards buying a house. Her father is not in good health, and she is currently the main wage earner for the whole extended family.

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But we reached an impasse yesterday over the method of funding. She wants me to pay her the whole year’s amount up front in one lump sum. She says this will let her make a good down payment on the house she wants to buy, whereas paying her monthly would not.

 

I can see this as being kind of like a dowry, and realize that is customary in some circles here even today. But I worry about losing the whole bundle if for whatever reason things didn’t work out as hoped. I’ve been around the block more than once and am not naïve about such matters.

 

You'll pay her living expenses for a year? After that she'll have to find a job?

 

Also, if it didn't work out before the year is out, she'd also have to find a job? How difficult would it be for her to get another job as well paying as her last one?

 

I don't know the job market in China, let alone Kunming.

 

Kobo.

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Thank you all for your comments. Lots of excellent points.

 

I need to confess right off that I’m not at all sure I handled things in the best possible manner. Sometimes I can be pretty stupid when it comes to affairs of the heart.

 

By way of background, I just returned last week from almost two months in the US. I missed her a lot during that time even though we frequently talked on Skype and exchanged chat messages. I sent her photos of places I went, interesting things I saw, people I met and so on. Brought her a couple nice presents – French perfume and a cashmere sweater.

 

Once back in Kunming one of the first things on my private agenda was to try and work out how to become closer in some way or other. She told me the thing she wanted most in life right now was to be able to buy a house here in the city, mainly to help her rural parents. She is trying to extricate them from a tough situation, the details of which are complex. She has been working as hard as she can and living frugally, but the house still seemed elusive. It was eating her up with worry.

 

She asked if I could help. I told her I that of course I would do what I could. The last thing in the world I wanted was for her to quit her job. She likes the work, even if not the hours, and has many friends there. They provide her a dorm and all meals. Departing would be extremely disruptive and leave a very big hole in her life. I fear she would be bored and lost without it. She didn't grow up in Kunming, just moved here about 3 years ago from her village and does not have a wide circle of friends. 

 

I asked if there were a way we could spend more time together because I would really value that. Maybe cut back her hours or take some days off. She said the only way would be to resign, which is when the talk about salary and living expenses began. I wanted to make her whole if she left and not ask her to suffer economically.

 

One of my Chinese friends said she thought that’s where things went astray. That my approach was too blunt, therefore improper, and that it came across like a proposition to become my 二奶, a kept woman, which she might easily have perceived as somewhat insulting.

 

Let me stop there and reread the thread. Then I’ll come back and try my best to address specific questions one at a time.

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Never, ever tell a woman to leave her job for a relationship. If she wants to leave a job for more or better education, then pay for her education. What Lu advised in #13, was excellent. 

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Once back in Kunming one of the first things on my private agenda was to try and work out how to become closer in some way or other. She told me the thing she wanted most in life right now was to be able to buy a house here in Kunming, mainly to help her rural parents. She is trying to extricate them from a tough situation, the details of which are complex. She has been working as hard as she can and living frugally, but the house still seemed elusive. It was eating her up with worry.

 

She asked if I could help. I told her I that of course I would

 

 

I'm playing devils advocate here but these two parts are important to be honest. 'You' haven't be mentioned in this bit . Just worth adding that into the mix so you can see it from all sides  :wink:

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