What is the difference between these 2 Chinese sentences?

[hlk123]

Hello

Ist there any difference in a Chinese mind between these 2 Chinese sentences?
In English mind there is no difference ......
Thank you.

昨天他写字.
He wrote yesterday.

昨天他写了字.
He wrote yesterday.
 

[Tiana]

As the sentences stand (without context), there is no difference. It's the context (what other sentences are around) that determines whether it's appropriate with or without 了.

As 了 works only in context, one cannot realistically talk about 了 without context (One sometimes can, but some specific context is assumed, or embedded in the explanation).

[Guest123]

Very roughly speaking, 了 means a chane in a situation. So, if you only say 他写了字, a chinese speaker would be waiting what you'd say next, the information sounds incomplete.

[Yorin]

 

Very roughly speaking, 了 means either a change in a situation.

 

That would be 他写字了. The 了 in 他写了字 expresses that the action is completed.

[Guest123]

 

 

in 他写了字 expresses that the action is completed

Well, a completion is also a sort changement 

Seriously, if you only say 他写了字, with no further explanation, no any context, it's difficult to say if the action is completed.. or only finished, in the sense that he stoped writing, now he is not writing. Compare 他写完了字. But in any case a chinese listener would feel that your sentence is not finished, some infromation is lacking and it's impossible to understand what the speaker means exactly

[Pegasus]

@hlk123 - I think you've asked a good question. It's a question that I think many Chinese language learners have asked when learning about and trying to get familiar with了. I know I wondered this too when I started learning Chinese. There are multiple uses of 了 and it takes time to get proficient at them. And, textbooks often only expose you to one way of using 了 at a time, saving other uses for later. In my experience, the textbook explanation only gives you a starting point for getting familiar and proficient with 了. It's really through time, experience, practice, and plenty of exposure to real examples in context that you really get a good grasp of 了, like many other foreign aspects of a new language you're trying to learn. 

 

I think Tiana's and Edita's responses are very helpful. And, Edita's response gives insight into what a native Chinese speaker might think if someone said "昨天他写了字" to him/her without further context or explanation. 

 

I am just a Chinese learner myself, but let me share what I am thinking based on my experience. Maybe the following examples could illustrate some of the ways that we can think about context.

 

Take this English language example: (1) "He wrote characters yesterday." versus (2) "He wrote the characters yesterday." The only difference between sentence 1 and sentence 2 is that sentence 2 has one extra word, "the". Let's imagine I am a student in Beginning Chinese class and the "He" in the example sentences refers to a fellow classmate. If someone said sentence 1 to me without further explanation, I might think, "Oh. Sounds like he is taking initiative to practice Chinese so he can do well in the class." Now, instead, let's imagine someone said sentence 2 to me, without further explanation. In that case, the simple inclusion of "the" might make me think, "The characters? Am I missing some piece of information here? Did the teacher assign us some characters to write for homework that I don't know about?" I might respond by saying, "What characters?"

 

Now let's change the context slightly. Let's imagine that, in the class, we start a new chapter every week. And, let's imagine that every week we have been writing the characters from the new chapter into our notebook as part of our normal routine. In this situational context, I might guess what the "the" in sentence 2 would be referring to, and sentence 1 might be the weird one. In this situation, if I heard sentence 2 without further explanation, I might think that's normal. I might think, "Oh, he wrote the characters for the new chapter yesterday. I better get started so I don't fall behind." On the other hand, if I heard sentence 1 in this context without further explanation, I might think, "Err... Okay.... He's just writing general characters for practice?" I don't think I would assume that they were the characters for the new chapter this week even thought they might be and even though we have been writing the characters from each new chapter each new week. I think it would be left unclear in my mind. 

 

Or here's a different English language example. (3) "He wrote characters today." versus (4) "He has written the characters." If I heard sentence 3 in the same situational context where we're students of Beginning Chinese but without further explanation, I might think that he was just practicing for himself and I probably would not think any more about it. However, if I heard sentence 4, then I might think, "Why is she telling me this? How does this affect me? Why does this matter to me? Was he writing the characters for me? Did I ask him to write some characters? What characters are we talking about?" 

 

Now, let's change the context slightly. Let's imagine that earlier today I asked him to write some characters for me and I gave him the names of the characters that I wanted him to write. If I heard sentence 3, I might think, "How about the characters I asked him to write? Did he write those?" On the other hand, if I heard sentence 4, I would probably immediately think that we're talking about the characters I asked him to write this morning, and that the state of the action right now is that it is done. 

 

I don't know if this is helpful, but I hope these examples illustrate a little why context can be so important. 

 

Cheers.

 

[Guest123]

@Pegasus - After your post I know more about english   (english is not my language)

 

了 is quite a problem for us for two reasons : 1) we have nothing similar to it; 2) in chinese the context is in some way more important than in european languages, because in our grammar different forms of words give a lot of information by themselves, and in chinese words are invariable.

 

Textbooks often say it means completion. Well, not necessarily. When it's after a verb, it needs some... how to say it?... it needs some limits, determination - quantity, time, series of action, in order to be understood. It's even more than just a context. As they say in smart grammar books, 了 indicates a bounded action. 

 

 

Examples:

 

昨天他写了字，写了两个小时，还是没写完，今天还要继续写。

昨天他写了字，写了两个小时才写完。

 

昨天他写了字他妈妈才让他看电视。

 

昨天他写“福”字，写了几十遍。

昨天他写了几个字就去睡觉。

昨天他把你要的字写好了。

 

Underlined parts are those "determinations" that require the use of 了. 

[Altair]

Here is my understanding:

 

Chinese verbs, unlike verbs in English and similar languages, do not indicate time of occurrence (i.e., "tense") or actuality of occurrence (mode).  This is especially true if the verb is used without aspect particles.

 

Both English and Chinese verbs describe something about the passage of time as part of their dictionary meaning.  This something is called "aktionsart," "lexical aspect," or "situation type"  and can be categorized according to whether it indicates a duration of time (e.g., "sing"), something instantaneous (e.g., "knock"), something result oriented (i.e., "realize"), something without an implied result (e.g., "walk"), something static (i.e., "ail" or "be ill"), or something dynamic (i.e., "write").  Chinese and English do not necessarily agree on the same lexical aspect for any given verb.

 

Some Chinese particles (e.g., 了、着、过) and all English verb tenses combine with the lexical aspect of a particular verb, along with any verbal objects, to indicate a grammatical aspect.  The fact that this is a combination is one of the reasons why the particle 了, for instance, seems to give a different meaning in different phrases.  It is also one of the reasons English speakers do not have a good sense of grammatical aspect.  It is often fused together with ideas of tense and lexical aspect.

 

1a. 昨天他写字。
This phrase indicates that his writing one or more characters was relevant to yesterday, but actually does not clearly indicate whether any writing actually occurred.  It merely refers to an event without asserting whether it happened or not.  A cumbersome English equivalent would be: "I want you to know about him writing one or more characters yesterday."  The Chinese phrasing is most appropriate when the listener already knows something happened and just needs it characterized or when the speaker is going to give additional details about the event of writing.  Adding a 了 in such a situation would be putting stress on the wrong details and making it hard to continue you the thought smoothly.

2a. 昨天他写了字。
This phrase is the equivalent of: "I want you to know about him having written one or more characters."  The 了 clearly refers to some sort of temporal or conceptual boundary; however the sentence is oddly vague about what this boundary is and why the speaker is indicating it.  A conceptually discrete object can provide such a boundary, such as 那个字; however the word 字 by itself defaults strongly to a generic reference with a verb like 写.  Saying 他写了字 seems to tell the reader to envision something changing without telling what exactly it is.  Generic things stay generic.  That is why the phrase sounds technically grammatical, but incomplete.  The hearer is left hanging without the speaker telling him or her what to envision with the boundary that is explicitly referenced by the use of 了.

 

3a. 昨天他写字了。

This phrase is the equivalent of: "I want you to know about him ending up writing one or more characters."  The 了 will default to a meaning of indicating that the verb phrase that precedes it is the last relevant thing to say about the situation.  Although the 了does not say what follows the boundary it indicates, it says that nothing relevant occurs.

 

This is also the phrase that seems to translate best what English speakers think they mean by "he wrote yesterday."  It would be inappropriate if the emphasis were more on how or when he went to school rather than whether he went to school.

 

Note that the 了 can also indicate the start of something. 

 

3b.  他写字了。

 

This is the equivalent of: "he is ending up writing" or "he ended up writing."  If this is referring to the current situation, it can be translated as: "he is writing now."  If it refers to a past situation, it could be translated as "he wrote."  If the time reference is not clear, the speaker can add a more explicit time adverb, like 昨天.

 

 

To help clarify some the differences, let me change give some more examples.

 

1c. 昨天他去学校。

 

This phrase is the equivalent of saying: "I want you to know about him going to school yesterday."  It is vague about whether or not he got there or even started out.  It is a good way to start talking about the trip to school.

 

2c. 昨天他去了学校。

 

This phrase is equivalent to saying: "I want you to know about him having gone to school yesterday."  It refers to the aftermath of him getting to school.  It can imply that you are going on to say something about what happened once he arrived.  Unlike 2b, it can also imply that the arrival at school is itself important to know, since this represents a clear boundary.

 

3c. 昨天他去学校了。

 

This phrase is equivalent to saying: "I want you to know about him having done the school run yesterday."  It refers to the aftermath of the whole process of "going to school."  In this case, it is not clearly different from 2b without additional context; however, I think it is less likely to describe the person as being at the school.

 

4. 昨天他去过学校。

 

This phrase is like saying: "I want you to know about him having been to school yesterday."  It refers to the clear completion of the entire "going to school" process.  It implies that going to school represents some sort of dividing line of experience and that the person has undergone the experience.  It also implies that the person is no longer at the school since no part of the experience can be ongoing.