薄弱的力量

[Pedroski]

Just checking: the following is not at all bad Chinese, or is it?

 

自主研发力量的薄弱，在某种程度上制约着民族游戏产业的发展。

 

I suppose I could also write:

 

薄弱的自主研发力量，

 

Either way I seem to have 'weak strength' or 'strength's weakness', which I suppose would need to be 'lack of strength' or some such.

 

 

[masteryoshi]

the both are right.

自主研发力量的薄弱, is formal compare the sentence which put the adjective at the first place.. you can find it usually at some official documents..even you can take out the "的" like this "自主研发力量薄弱、企业管理经营不善，都是制约民族游戏产业发展的主要原因。"

[imron]

Just checking: the following is not at all bad Chinese, or is it?

Remember that post where someone gave you some advice that it's better to assume that your understanding of the language is incorrect rather than the to assume native speakers writing in their own language are incorrect?  Yeah, that.

[anonymoose]

It would be possible grammatically, and possibly even written like that by some people. But there is a difference, and if you don't recognise this, it will lead to sloppy writing.

In your example sentence, what is it that is restricting the development of the industry? Is it the strength of private developers, which happens to be weak (in other words, the emphasis is on "strength of private developers"), or is it the fact that the strength is weak? It is this weakness that is the cause, and thus, weakness would be the logical subject of the sentence, thus 自主研发力量的薄弱 and not 薄弱的自主研发力量.

[Pedroski]

Thanks! Sloppy writing my speciality! But I don't like 'the strength is weak'. The whole thing needs other words in English, even though the Chinese is apparently faultless. I'd leave out strength and weakness and go for:

 

自主研发力量的薄弱，在某种程度上制约着民族游戏产业的发展。

The lack of independent R&D, at least to some degree, restricts the development of the Chinese games industry.

 

I got this answer too, which I also found very interesting:

 

Both expressions (the one you quoted and the one you wrote) are perfectly fine in Chinese.

薄弱 vs 'lack of' is a typical difference between language/culture mindsets. You can replace 薄弱 with 缺乏/缺失, which also sounds natural, but implies 'completely missing' to Chinese listeners. 薄弱 is the Chinese way to say 'somewhat/partially lack of'.

[anonymoose]

Yes, I wasn't trying to provide a perfect English translation. I just wanted to illustrate how the words are functioning in Chinese. I agree, I wouldn't say "the strength is weak" either.

[Tiana]

I wouldn't say "the strength is weak" either.

 

I wouldn't either. But the question is: who determines that 力量 has to be translated as "strength"?

[anonymoose]

Can you think of a better word, whilst preserving the structure of the sentence (that is, without rephrasing as Pedroski has done)? I thought of using "power", but that doesn't seem any better than "strength". Maybe "ability".

[Tiana]

Off the top of my head, "the lack of resources in independent R&D..." may work. Even omitting 力量 in the translation altogether may also do the trick.

[陳德聰]

Part of the problem is that the name of the measure being referred to in English happens to imply positive. "Strength" implies strong more than it does weak, but 力量 here is just the name of the spectrum.

I would translate 自主研發力量 as a unit just as it is in the original: "independent R&D", so "the weakness of independent R&D, to some extent, ..."

[dwq]

The sentence follows the pattern of 英式中文, I'd say it is not an example of good Chinese.

 

比起中文來，英文不但富於抽象名詞，也喜歡用抽象名詞。英文可以說「他的收入的減少改變了他的生活方式」，中文這麼說，就太西化了。英文用抽象名詞「減少」做主詞，十分自然。中文的說法是以具體名詞，尤其是人，做主詞：「他因為收入減少而改變生活方式」，或者「他收入減少，乃改變生活方式」。

——余光中《怎樣改進英式中文？──論中文的常態與變態》

[Pedroski]

That was the question

I'd say it is not an example of good Chinese.

 

 

But no one English would say 'strong weakness' or the like!

 

Is nothing sacred? Shall all things be infected with English?

 

Language is a virus! (Laurie Anderson）

[Pedroski]

Also got 'competence' for '力量‘

 

自主研发力量的薄弱 = weakness of independent research and development competence

[陳德聰]

I don't agree that it's not an example of good Chinese, but that's a discussion we've had here on the forum countless times so perhaps it doesn't need to be reopened here.

 

力量薄弱<- perfectly good Chinese.

[Pedroski]

Yeah, I like the way Chinese says things. I really like the way you can say '很好‘ or '很不好‘。 Chinese has a superior logic.