Adjectives and Measure Words

[Altair]

How does one say things like "one large pack of French fries," "one tall glass of water," "one red box of chocolates," and "one small crowd of people"? When the adjective (形容詞) refers to the container, rather than to thing in the container, must it come before or after the measure word (量詞)?

[skylee]

"one large pack of French fries" ~ 一大包土豆/薯條

"one tall glass of water" ~ 一大杯水

"one small crowd of people" ~ 一小群人

"one red box of chocolates" ~ 放在一個紅色盒子裡的巧克力/朱古力

[Altair]

Thanks Skylee. I thought you had to say 一包大薯條 for a big box of fries.

"one red box of chocolates" ~ 放在一個紅色盒子裡的巧克力/朱古力

This one is a surprise and something I would never have come up with; but now that I see the structure, I think I can guess what needs to go on.

By the way, I never heard of 朱古力 before, is that a new word, or a variation that has existed for some time?

[geraldc]

I thought you had to say 一包大薯條 for a big box of fries.

That would be a bag of large fries

朱古力 is more common in Cantonese

[xuezhongwen]

Thanks Skylee. I thought you had to say 一包大薯條 for a big box of fries.

一包 大 薯條 is a pack of big fries' date='

a [b']big[/b] pack of fries is 一 大包 薯條

"one red box of chocolates" is a little tricky, I don't think it's quite correct to say 放在一個紅色盒子裡的巧克力/朱古力, that changed the focus of the phrase, by shifting the concentration to the box, instead of the chocolate. In the English phrase, 'red' is just a modifier, but the translation makes it more like the main subject.

I would just say 一紅盒子巧克力, even though that's not common, but it's understandable, and closer to what the original English meaning.

[Quest]

"one red box of chocolates" is just as odd as "一红盒子的巧克力", is it not? Since the focus is on chocolates, who cares whether the box is red or green? That's why "一大盒的巧克力" would sound more natural, despite same grammar.

[skylee]

the problem is "red" has nothing to do with quantity. one doesn't usually say, "oh please give me a red box of chocolates."

[Altair]

How about saying something some like: "That was such a pretty box of chocolates they sent me!" Would you have to reword it to something like: "They sent me such a pretty box filled with chocolates!"?

What I am learning from this is that measure words in Chinese seem to resist modification, except with respect to size and quantity. In English, I do not sense any awkwardness in saying phrases like "a dirty bag of rice," since "bag" is really not a "measure" word.

[Quest]

"That was such a pretty box of chocolates they sent me!"

I would say "他们送给我的那盒巧克力的盒子真好看。“

I think the topic focus changes to "a pretty box" in this sentence.

[shibo77]

I would say:

"一红盒儿巧克力。Yi4 hong2 her2 qiao3ke5li4. A red box of chocolates."

But when I hear "一红盒巧克力 Yi4 hong2 he2 qiao3ke5li4.", without the "儿er" I would feel a bit uncomfortable about this sentence construction.

Now I realise "儿" is a lifesaver in strange sentence constructions.

朱古力zhu1gu3li4 old loanword from French "chocolat".

巧克力qiao3ke5li4 new loanword from English "chocolate".

-Shìbó