Will a juvenile record prevent me from obtaining a Chinese visa?

[ablindwatchmaker]

I am hoping to move to China to teach English and thought everything would be fine until I discovered that they are now screening people for criminal history. This topic has been covered in some detail elsewhere, but the problem that I am having is in determining if a JUVENILE record will prevent me from working in China. I have no adult record and as far as private sector employers are concerned, I am legally able to say I don't on a job application, but I am not eligible to join the military or work for any law enforcement agency in the US. What worries me about this process is that the Chinese government wants a criminal history from the FBI, which may or may not omit juvenile information upon request (Juvenile information is contained by default if I request the background check. Also, the FBI does not often honor state law when it pertains to disclosure laws that pertain to juveniles, even though they are bound by federal law to honor state law that pertains to this subject).

 

The state in which I live makes a distinction between the two and issues two separate background checks accordingly. In my state, by law I am the only person who can access the file, along with law enforcement and the military. I have seen quite a bit of ambiguity as to how the process can be completed, and it seems that there are several ways in which I could use loop holes to avoid disclosing my juvenile record, but I wanted to know if anyone on here has more detailed knowledge of the process. For instance, it seems that I could go to the state police and get a clean record, which could then be notarized by the state department, giving me a clean bill of health. Basically, my sticking point is the FBI; every other aspect of the process should be no problem.

 

I have read every article I can find on the subject and can find no answers. Also, assume that disclosure of my juvenile background is absolutely not an option--it must not come into the equation. Additionally, many of you have probably been led to believe that juvenile crimes are automatically erased or inconsequential, but they are absolutely relevant and very difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate.

 

I would greatly appreciate any help on this topic. Apologies for the long winded background, but I felt it necessary to anticipate token responses about juvenile records not being relevant.

 

 

[Shelley]

When you say the Chinese government will do a criminal record search, will they do it themselves or is it up to you to disclose the information?

 

IMHO (because I do not know the answer conclusively) you either hide the information if its up to you to disclose and spend the entire time in China looking over shoulder and worrying or tell them and take your chances they will not consider it a problem, but I think it all depends on exactly what your crime was, I think some are seen in a worse light than others.

 

If they are going to do the search themselves then you don't really have any option but to apply for your visa and see what happens.

 

Which ever way, you won't know for sure till you apply and get refused or accepted, so I guess you just have to go for it.

 

Maybe someone else on these forums can answer more positively

[ablindwatchmaker]

I do the search myself. The problem is what agencies they consider valid. If  am allowed to use the state police or court system, then it isn't a problem, but if the FBI is the only legitimate source, I'm probably screwed. This is why I can't get jobs in law enforcement or the military, or any job that is allowed to use FBI checks as a condition for employment, like banks.

 

It's funny, when you are a kid (12-14) they make you believe that you still have a bright future and that as long as you don't keep screwing up, you can do whatever you want. I'm one of the few who actually tried to do something different and have now had to change my career path 3 times, after significant investment, because there are so many exceptions to the rule. What they really mean is that you can work blue collar jobs and manual labor jobs without interference, but if you try to work as a professional of ANY kind your juve record is subject to scrutiny. Your academic achievements mean nothing. Anyway....

 

The courts and state police actually follow the law when it pertains to juvenile law and will act accordingly and give me the letter saying I have no criminal record. The FBI doesn't have to honor anything. Again, disclosing my juvenile record is not an option under ANY circumstances. I wouldn't be able to work at a gas station with all the crap on my juve record. No rape and no murder, but quite a lot of other stuff. Basically a lot of petty crime you would expect from juvenile delinquents.

[anonymoose]

What kind of visa are you applying for? I've never heard of anyone being required to provide criminal history. Maybe this is new, but I certainly didn't need anything like that when I last applied about 7 months ago.

[Xiao Kui]

When I applied at a (private) Chinese university recently I was asked to consent to a criminal background check, but I don't know if this was a requirement o the university or the Chinese gov't. This was the first time I've ever had to do this. 

[ChTTay]

Hello there!

 

Yes, it's likely you will have to provide a criminal record check. This has been in place for sometime, around the time they started to require 2 years work experience. All our new teachers have to do this.

 

I guess this could be more strictly enforced in different locations but it's pretty common I think.

 

I know that American teachers who are already in China can just go to the embassy and get a letter stating their record is clean. I am not sure what they do in the U.S.   I seem to recall they go somewhere within their state though ... I don't believe its an FBI thing. Could be wrong though.

[ablindwatchmaker]

Here is an article written about the topic. It only became a problem in 2013, after the Chinese government passed a new immigration law.

 

http://lawandborder.com/police-clearance-letters-for-foreign-workers-in-china/

[Johnny20270]

Hi, 

 

 

You can't erase the past and whether you get a visa or not is out of your control, so I'd say just apply and see what happens

 

No point second guessing.

 

Good luck though! 

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

You can't erase the past

 

Actually, in the great country we call America, you can get all of this taken care of with political connections and/or money. The going rate to get rid of my juvenile stuff is about 15,000 dollars, per a few attorneys.

[ChTTay]

I would just apply and see what happens.

Are you sure you need an FBI one?

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

Are you sure you need an FBI one?

 

If I were trying to work in hangzhou or qingdao, I would need a national one, which means the FBI=screwed. If there were a way for the FBI to say I don't have an ADULT record I would be fine. However, I wouldn't expect the FBI to have any willingness to do this.

 

 

 

I would just apply and see what happens.

 

This doesn't really work as a solution when the last four years of my life and $37,000 have been invested in this working out, not to mention all of the time I've invested in learning this language. If the juve stuff comes up, it' game over.

[Xiao Kui]

My background check for my visa applications (private uni in China)  was through backgroundreports.com, so it appears they didn't need the official FBI one. When my sister taught in Korea two years ago she needed an official FBI one.

[Angelina]

Don't worry, if China doesn't work out you can always try Korea. Everything will be fine.

It's a good idea to go to China, and you will probably do well. In case it doesn't work out, it won't be the end of the world, don't get obsessed with the idea to move to China.

I once did a background check at the court. Did not get the work permit (not a 'native' speaker of English- this was the reason I guess). I am still alive. The world is huge. It's not only US/China. If you don't like the U.S., you can go anywhere you want.

[陳德聰]

$37,000 + $15,000 = worst case scenario, yes?

 

My suggestion is go, get your fingerprints taken, and request your FBI police certificate, this will cost you the $18 FBI fee and whatever the going rate for prints is in Austin. Wait until you see what appears on your police certificate before you proceed or stress any further.

 

Edit: Actually after looking around, couldn't you just do the same background check that employers would do for employment or licensing in the U.S. and submit that? I can't imagine your juvenile rap sheet would actually be part of the publicly available records.

[ChTTay]

"Don't worry, if China doesn't work out you can always try Korea. Everything will be fine."

You need a background check for Korea too.

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

Actually after looking around, couldn't you just do the same background check that employers would do for employment or licensing in the U.S. and submit that? I can't imagine your juvenile rap sheet would actually be part of the publicly available records.

 

I have a printout of my FBI rap sheet and it isn't pretty. As to whether I can use a different service, that is the primary sticking point. As of right now, only a few areas are requiring the FBI check, but it seems that is the trend and will most likely be the case all over China in the coming years. My China plan is long term, so I have to take that into account. Right now I can pass any background check that doesn't involve the FBI. I have been looking into ways to get these things expunged, but it is going to take some time.

[陳德聰]

What I mean is, when you apply for employment in the U.S., would you have to provide the background check requested by yourself? or do the employers get your signature and then go and make some sort of records request regarding you?

 

I am not saying "oh maybe your rap sheet isn't that bad", what I am saying is that if you perform the record check request, you will at least be able to see exactly what it is that the FBI would be disclosing and how. An alternative would perhaps be to make a FOIA or Privacy Act request for records spanning a certain time frame (naturally, excluding when you were a minor), or specify adult records, and submit the results of that request.

 

I also suggest that you seek out an immigration lawyer in China who can give you advice on what documents meet the requirements of the criminal record check, or whether your chances of successfully obtaining a subsequent visa after being denied for not submitting adequate police certificates would be lower etc.

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

What I mean is, when you apply for employment in the U.S., would you have to provide the background check requested by yourself? or do the employers get your signature and then go and make some sort of records request regarding you?

 

For the FBI check, I am the only person who can request it. Most companies are not allowed to ask me to do this, but there are exceptions like Teaching, banking, law enforcement, etc. I would have to give them the real thing if I pursued a job there.

 

 

An alternative would perhaps be to make a FOIA or Privacy Act request for records spanning a certain time frame (naturally, excluding when you were a minor), or specify adult records, and submit the results of that request.

 

I believe the police clearance letter is a very specific thing that necessarily includes the juve stuff, but perhaps it doesn't. I'm currently in contact with an immigration lawyer based in Beijing and when I've got some money hopefully I can get this resolved.

[陳德聰]

What I mean is that on occasion, we are able to satisfy certain requirements in alternative ways if the actual legislation does not call for a specific certificate but rather proof of X Y and Z that is just generally done by providing a specific certificate. I guess that is what the immigration lawyer in Beijing will be most well-versed in, but hopefully you can get it resolved before you lose love for Chinese.

[ablindwatchmaker]

I certainly hope so! Worst case scenario, I'll pay the legal fees and get it done. I love learning Chinese, studying Chinese culture, and want to live there, so I'm not calling it quits lol.