Should I learn to read and write in chinese?

[m1kesta]

I'm an ABC and will be moving to Shanghai for business with a native relative over there. 

 

I want to be as prepared as possible and my native tongue has always been English and German (was born there). I do know some very basic, basic Shanghainese. No mandarin and no reading nor writing skills.

 

I do have some relatives and friends in Shanghai, so I can always ask friends/family when it comes to important documents/paperwork. However, do I want to limit myself to that? Or more importantly, should I bother learning how to read and write it if English is almost becoming a standard second language in Shanghai?

[Shelley]

IMHO the simple answer is yes.

 

There has been much discussion on this subject here on the forums lately. If you type reading and writing in to the search box you will get lots of results of different discussions on the topic.

 

I feel that without reading and writing you will be missing out on lots of things, it would make getting around easier as you could read signs, and other instructions that may be important.

 

Just think how much reading and writing you do in your native language, this is what you would be missing.
 

 

However, do I want to limit myself to that?

 

And this is the other part of the argument, apart from the practicalities, do you want to only muddle your way through, or take on learning the language - speaking, reading and writing.

 

This is something only really you can decide because you know how and why you want to learn Chinese.

 

Whatever you decide, Welcome to Chinese forums, here you will find lots of friendly, helpful people.

[Lu]

should I bother learning how to read and write it if English is almost becoming a standard second language in Shanghai?

English is not becoming a standard second language in Shanghai, and if you rely on this you'll limit yourself to a very large extent.

 

If you're moving to Shanghai for more than the short term, learning Chinese is highly recommended. It will be immensely helpful in practically all aspects of life, from making friends to renting a house to ordering food to reading business contracts.

 

Good luck!

[889]

I certainly don't disagree that if you're going to learn Chinese, then learn to read and write as well as speak.

 

But there's a certain casualness to your question that makes me wonder if you appreciate the time and effort involved, especially if you're trying to juggle both a job and language acquisition, and even more especially if you're in a place with as many distractions as Shanghai. It may be even more difficult in your situation if you have relatives trying to get you to speak in Shanghainese while you're more naturally concentrating on Putonghua.

 

How long are you going to be in China? If it's just a two- or three-year stint, then you might want to spend your time on business and career, not language.

[Silent]

 

I'm an ABC and will be moving to Shanghai for business with a native relative over there.

 

 

 

I do have some relatives and friends in Shanghai, so I can always ask friends/family when it comes to important documents/paperwork.

I don't know what exactly you intend to do, but I think that if you start a business relying on friends/family is a bad idea. Hire professional help. At home if you have an important business contract you hire a lawyer to  verify it, you don't ask you family. Why would this be different in China?

 

Learning the language is obvious if you're there to do business for the long term, but it will take, probably many, years before you get to a level suitable in a business setting.

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

How long are you going to be in China? If it's just a two- or three-year stint, then you might want to spend your time on business and career, not language.

 

This. People often think, especially in the business world, that they can take a few Mandarin classes and be in a position to use it professionally. Unfortunately, Mandarin simply requires too much effort to learn if you don't have a lot of time and dedication. I can't tell you how many Chinese minors my school hands out every year to people in the business school, and those people are no where near able to use Mandarin professionally. 2-3 years of full-time study in the target country is a minimum, although I think you could get to a very respectable level with the spoken language in about a year, if you were serious.

[GotJack]

I would say speaking and listening is 10/10 important, reading 8/10 important, and writing 1/10 important. You can get by without reading, but it will become more and more frustrating the longer you do it.

 

For the haters who are going to say writing is fundamental, in my opinion for 99% of people you don't need it. Although granted, it helps you reading, it is not the most efficient way. Ie an hour spent actually practicing reading is better than an hour of writing characters in terms of improving reading. (Although this isn't to say some people get great pleasure out of writing, and it is an art!)

 

So my advice would be , speaking/listening/reading all great writing-huge waste of time

[ablindwatchmaker]

 

and writing 1/10 important

 

In terms of time spent, I completely agree. One of my biggest regrets is having spent so much time writing characters and studying flashcards in Anki. It took up over half the time I spent studying Chinese. I now refuse to spend more than 20 minutes writing characters. These days, I spend about an hour doing active listening and about 40 minutes reading. I spend about ten minutes memorizing sentence patterns and speaking out loud. Writing characters should be an afterthought.

[GotJack]

As a side note, I meet so many beginner foreigners who come to Zheda for a year and spend the majority of their time learning characters for 听写 exams at least once weekly if not more. Only to find at the end, learning characters takes so much bloody time that their overall language progress has been terrible, and resultantly they become demotivated and assume actually speaking Chinese is impossible, and essentially give up.

 

This is another major reason why I have such a hard on for writing actually holding people back. That and it being an awkward conversation when I tell my teachers I refuse to do dictation

[Yang Chuanzhang]

I'm an ABC

*snip* 

[...]English and German (was born there).

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to nitpick: Is it common for ethnically Chinese people in Germany to call themselves ABCs?

 

On topic, you might be familiar with this but Victor Mair has written a post on this very question: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=189

[889]

It's useful to distinguish between "writing Chinese" in the sense of composing written text and "writing Chinese" in the sense of putting strokes down on paper. The ability to compose basic written Chinese is important: you need to be able to respond to texts and emails to function in China. The ability to write out by hand the texts you compose, with all the strokes correct, is of course much less important these days. Nonetheless, learning to write individual characters also helps memorize them for reading, so the time spend writing out characters over and again isn't just for developing hand-writing skills.

[aimailian]

Hi M1Kesta!,

I have been reading the comments and I think you have an incredible opportunity of moving to Shanghai for business. You are right when you think about no limiting yourself to your relative's support. If you are a dedicated person, you can learn to write the Chinese characters little by little, it will increase your capability of reading and learning in general and it will give you the oportunity of growing up. Don't limit your possibilities, please!!! Be courageous! You have an opportunity that many of we students of chinese language would want to reach. Take advantage of it!!!! Bless you and succeed!!!

[Flickserve]

Learn to speak and listen first. If you are interested, and you think it useful, learn some characters. Writing? You are never going to to write a letter so don't spend time on it unless you want to wechat using chinese.

I find it quite useful to read a menu in Chinese! Even in Hong Kong, not all places will write the English translation so knowing Chinese greatly increases options for essential meals.

Of course, this won't bother you if you are happy eating KFC everyday.

[Kobo-Daishi]

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to nitpick: Is it common for ethnically Chinese people in Germany to call themselves ABCs?

 

He said he was born in Germany and his native languages are English and German, in that order (I guess). So, I'm assuming he's in the states. Albania? Argentina?

 

GBC? DBC? Or do Germans have different letters words for BC as well.  

 

Kobo, German-illiterate.

[m1kesta]

Thank you all for the comprehensive and very helpful answers. I'm glad I stumbled upon this forum. 

 

To clarify, I was born in Germany and then moved to the US in middle school, so I basically grew up and have all my friends in the US. To make it easier, I just said ABC because I wanted to point out that my nationality is Chinese and I have parents and family that would allow a more immersive learning environment. Also, a funny fact is that while I speak Shanghainese at home, it's very basic and normally mixed in with German or English - whatever comes to me easier when I don't know a certain word or expression.

 

 

I don't know what exactly you intend to do, but I think that if you start a business relying on friends/family is a bad idea. Hire professional help. At home if you have an important business contract you hire a lawyer to verify it, you don't ask you family. Why would this be different in China?

 

Learning the language is obvious if you're there to do business for the long term, but it will take, probably many, years before you get to a level suitable in a business setting.

 

Thank you for pointing this out, this is a good point.

 

 

 

If you're moving to Shanghai for more than the short term, learning Chinese is highly recommended. It will be immensely helpful in practically all aspects of life, from making friends to renting a house to ordering food to reading business contracts.

 

I will be moving back and fourth indefinitely, especially since we have family and will also have an ongoing business. Either way, I think this thread answered my question: I do need to learn reading Chinese, at the minimum, in addition to being able to speak it. Writing will be another story, however. 

 

Here is a general question. Do most people in Shanghai speak Shanghainese? Are there any native speakers that speak Shanghainese but not Mandarin? 

[Lu]

Do most people in Shanghai speak Shanghainese? Are there any native speakers that speak Shanghainese but not Mandarin?

I don't know the numbers or even percentages, but while many native Shanghainese will speak or at least understand Shanghainese, many people living in Shanghai are migrants from other areas. They will usually not speak Shanghainese and often not understand it either. Basically everyone who has had some years of school in the past 50 or so years speaks Mandarin, so while there are people who don't speak it (older people, people with little education), and some more who prefer Shanghainese when possible (people with little education, people who spend all their time among fellow Shanghainese), most people you'll come across will speak Mandarin, and perhaps even speak it better than Shanghainese.

[m1kesta]

Thank you that was very helpful! 

[gaogaozhan]

 

Should I learn to read and write in chinese?

 

Ideally yes.

But it'd be more useful if you can speak and listen first.