What is the 去 doing in 就飞到月亮上去了?

[fij]

Hi,

 

This is a sentence from a textbook about 嫦娥，the Lady in the Moon.

 

她飞得越来越高，越来越快，最后就飞到月亮上去了。

 

As for the last part (in red) I thought that 就到飞。。。了 means that she flew to the Moon, and thus, no other verb is necessary. In other words, if I had to ask myself "What did this Lady do?", then I would respond "She flew to the Moon".

 

But what is the 去 doing here? Apparently, I am missing something here.

 

Thanks!

 

[Shelley]

上去  = to go up

 

I would think it means she flew up to the moon.

 

If I was asked what did the lady do, I would say the lady flew up to the moon.

 

I think the thing you are missing is that the 上 goes with the  去.

 

I may have got this wrong but it makes sense to me.

[fij]

Thank you.

 

If 上去 is not a verb, but it indicates merely the direction of 飞到, then I think I understand this structure.

 

However, if 上去 is a verb, then I am trying (but cannot) figure out which of the two verbs (飞到，上去) is the predicate here.

 

Maybe the two verbs form the predicate together in this fixed structure (that I haven't seen so far)?

 

Again: thanks!

[Shelley]

I am not very good at explaining grammar, but this item on Chinese grammar wiki might help.

 

http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/ASGFYNCL

[dwq]

This one is more relevant.

http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Direction_complement

[陳德聰]

The verb is 飞, there is a locative complement denoting where the goal of the action is (到月亮上) and a directional complement denoting the direction the action is going (去). The relevant issue here is the order of those two complements when they both exist in the sentence.

 

Consider:

... 就飞去到月亮上了  questionable

... 就飞到月亮上去了

 

I suggest understanding this as:

... 就[ 飞 [ 到月亮上 ] [ 去 ] ]了

 

And then you just need to memorize the fact that locative goal/target of the action is more tightly connected to the verb than the directionality of it.

Edited June 27, 2015 at 09:36 PM by 陳德聰

[Hofmann]

Not satisfied with that. I think this is a case of "到[place]來/去". So you have there 到 月亮上 去. Yes, 到 is a preposition.

[anonymoose]

Agree with Hofmann.

[TechKatz]

I think its just two separate actions connected without using any conjunction. 就飞到月亮-上去了

[陳德聰]

So then it splits [到月亮上][去] and both are still complements. I will revise.

[dwq]

I think it depends on whether you consider 月亮上 is a location. I suppose you can consider it similar to 地上.

OTOH you can also construct artificial situations that show 上 is (part of) a directional complement. For example if you are on a spaceship flying over the moon surface you can say 到月亮下去, going to the moon, down and away from your current location.

[陳德聰]

@dwq that is how I interpreted it on first glance, but when I compared with similar structures it is more useful for a learner to be able to match to other sentences like:

 

他跑[到家裡]去了

我走[到門外]去了

他被推[到地上]去了

 

etc. which are probably more common.

 

There is definitely potential ambiguity but Hofmann's not satisfied so.

[gaogaozhan]

 

For example if you are on a spaceship flying over the moon surface you can say 到月亮下去, going to the moon, down and away from your current location.

 

This is very, very bad. Totally unnatural.

到月亮下去 should be 下去到月亮 or 到月亮上

[陳德聰]

Grain of salt.

[Messidor]

就飞到月亮上去了 and 就飞到月亮上了 are literally the same. But the point of view is slightly different. The former: the writer or speaker or reader may be here on earth(where Change started), watching Change flying away to the moon out there; the latter: the writer or speaker or reader may be neither on earth nor on the moon, it's more like the third-person narrative, talking about the people there on earth and Change there on the moon. Also the former is more colloquial.

 

上 cannot be left out. because 月亮上 means on the (surface of the) moon, it's the spot required by the preposition 到 . 

[gaogaozhan]

 

the latter: the writer or speaker or reader may be neither on earth nor on the moon

 

就飞到月亮上了

 

I don't think so.

Then how about 就飞向月亮去了

That's more like what you mentioned, right?

 

third-person narrative, talking about the people there on earth and Change there on the moon

[陳德聰]

... Both 飞向月亮去了 and 飞到月亮去了 can represent the "third-person narrative"... The difference is that one is "towards" the moon and one is "to" the moon, not that one could be said as you observe it from the Earth, the moon, or just in space... I think the relevant issue has been resolved now, regarding how to parse "飞到月亮上去".

[Messidor]

In my opinion, there can be continuum

----------------------------|--------------|-------|-------

S                                A                B        C      O

A 就飞向月亮了 // B 就飞到月亮上去了 // C 就飞到月亮上了

S is where typical first-person narrative is ( "I see ... I feel ..." ), O is where typical third-person narrative is ( "I know everything in universe and I report them neutrally and objectively" ). But language and the practice of language is never neutral or objective. A novel in third-person perspective may depict things from various angles other than a totally neutral and objective one (which doesn't exist).

去 means from here(near the subject) to there(farther from the subject), it's a directional verb usually used as a complement (complement in Chinese means it syntactically modifies a v./adj. (but not necessarily modifies the v./adj. semantically)), whether in concrete or abstract sense. When people say 上楼去 for example, he or she is on the floor lower than the destination. Therefore 就飞到月亮上去了 sounds more or less like the narrator is on the earth looking to the moon high up there.

 

I find it difficult to express the nuances with my poor English  -.-||| especially when I haven't taken as much courses as I should

Also I should have used subjectivity / objectivity or angles instead of first-person / third-person

 

PS: 就飞向月亮去了is somewhat strange or dialectal (as in my mother tongue), if not grammatically unacceptable. It may be better to rearrange them as 就飞向月亮了/就向月亮飞去了；就飞向月亮了/就向月亮飞去了 means "have started to fly to the moon ( whether arrived or not is unknown ), 就飞到月亮上去了 means " have flown to the moon and arrived there".

[Messidor]

btw

it's more natural to say

他跑[回家裡]去了  

她走[到門外]去了 （现在时中，主体的行动和“去”针对主体的由近及远在语义上矛盾） 

我走[到門外]去了 （过去时中，不矛盾）

他被推[到地上]去了  （从站立到坐跌没有大的空间位移，“去”显得不自然；从高处被推落的情况下合乎语法但不合习惯，更常见的是“他被推下去/下来了”）

 

@ 陳德聰

 

---------------------------------------

 

@dwq

 

To express sth like "go from the spaceship over the moon to the surface of the moon down there" , Chinese will still say 到月亮上去 and it's unnecessary to use any word that means "down". Another example, X and Y are on the tree and Y commands X to climb down the tree to the ground, he can say 到地面去。

[gaogaozhan]

 

PS: 就飞向月亮去了is somewhat strange or dialectal (as in my mother tongue)

 

Really? I thought it was very natural.

 

就飞向月亮了/就向月亮飞去了

They both sound good to me.