Míngzis That Sounds Like Western Names

[Lu]

I just tried and 'beauty' and 'lady' also result in lots of pictures of beautiful ladies, even though these are not legit names. 美丽 is a legit name, to my knowledge, but not a good one (it's trite, as DD says). Similar for names like 美 or 美美, although 婷 and other 女子旁 names I think are considered more okay.

 

李娜 is a good name, but very common (I've personally met two 李娜s and that doesn't even include the tennis player), so use with caution.

[Angelina]

The 阿姨 here at my school is called 美丽 (given name). In some cultures they do name girls 美丽, not only China. Maybe it's not a special name though.

[Demonic_Duck]

I'm not saying no woman or girl could be called 美丽, just that I don't think it's a good name. It's too common. “丽” on its own as a given name is also too common.

 

For a girl's name, I still stick by my earlier suggestion of 李黎. I even put a question on Baidu Zhidao to see what native speakers think of it, as opposed to 李丽.

 

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/1692031650812121588

 

First response:

 

“李丽太普通了，很多人都有这个丽字，比较俗气吧，没有新意。李黎感觉更有意思，黎，黎明的意思，有希望有新意，感觉比美丽的丽更有韵味，个人觉得李黎更好。”

 

Translation: 李丽 is too ordinary, lots of people have this name. It's rather common sounding and lacking in originality. 李黎 feels more interesting, 黎 meaning 黎明 (dawn/daybreak), implying hopes and dreams. I feel it has more of a poetic quality than the 丽 of 美丽, so I personally prefer 李黎.

[Junzi]

Don't call your daughter 美丽, it'd be like calling your daughter "Beauty" in English, i.e. crass. The reason you're seeing lots of smiling Chinese ladies for this is because a) the captions for the pictures have the word “美丽” in them, and b) some of them are models (of varying levels of seediness) who use it as their stage names.

 

Ay! I guess that makes sense. Ya, I really wouldn't want to give my daughter a sleazy name   - even if it's otherwise popular and acceptable in China. 

 

 

Honestly, I'd avoid calling your daughter (or son for that matter) anything to do with physical appearance, because it's basically equivalent to saying "your value is in your looks". That's bad enough even if she really does grow up to be a stunner, but even worse if she doesn't.

 

Actually, in that sense, “美丽” isn't the worst, because it's more like beauty in the abstract sense. It still doesn't make a good name, though.

 

Yeah, maybe 美丽 is really a bit crass, because it only refers to beauty in both characters, but in general I think it should be okay to have one of the characters referring to beauty. I mean inner an outer beauty is part of the wishes we have for the child, right? So I feel it does not mean that we'd only value her looks.

 

Here are some other 美 names I also had on my list but didn't show here yet. Would these be better?

 

For an Aimée:

爱美 - love & beauty

蔼美 - friendship & beauty

 

For a Melinda:

美灵 - beautiful soul

美琳 - beautiful jade/gem

美铃 - beautiful chime

 

 

I don't think it's a good name. It's too common.

 

This was now stated a few times and I don't really get it. Why would it be so bad to have a common name? I mean, common names are common because many people like them so much they give them their children, right? So that must be a good thing, no? I know for Western names there are even some academic studies that found that common names are more likable, more likely to be hired and even less likely to be criminals. I'm not sure if there's any similar research done on Chinese names, but judging from the responses here I get that common names would be looked down upon. Why is that?

 

 

[Lu]

I know for Western names there are even some academic studies that found that common names are more likable, more likely to be hired and even less likely to be criminals.

Firstly, are you sure this is about the West or just about the US? In the US, there is a correlation between unique, uncommon names and black culture, and also between black people and prison time, leading to more people with unique names in prison. Perhaps this is also true in Germany, in which case I'd be curious about that study. Secondly, we're not talking about Western names in Western countries here, but about Chinese naming conventions. If you're going for a Chinese name, it can be wise to consider what actual Chinese people think of actual Chinese names. In China, in my (always limited) experience it's more often the highly-educated people who pick the unique, unlikely names. People with less education are less likely to pore over the dictionary to find rare characters with nice meanings.

 

That said I should ask my friend 李娜 how she feels about her name.

 

I know an ethnic Chinese woman named 美林. 美琳 is also fine I think, although these are also rather common names. 美灵 doesn't seem acceptable to me, but wait for a native speaker to confirm (and perhaps explain why).

[Demonic_Duck]

I think when people say "too common" they don't just mean high-frequency, they mean boring, lacking in originality, nothing to make it stand out. It can even have connotations of lacking class (in fact, the word in the comment I reposted which I translated as "common" (俗) has exactly this meaning - vulgar and lacking in refinement).

[Hofmann]

Why would it be so bad to have a common name?

Pretty much what Duck said. It implies one or more of the following.

• Their parents haven't given their names much thought.
• ...Perhaps because they are not worth much thought, i.e. just another body, will not become anyone outstanding.
• ...Perhaps because their parents are not capable (literate, cultured) enough.

You shouldn't assume that common must be good. Remember that not long ago, most Chinese people were illiterate. Current standards for literacy are not very high. If you are reading Chinese-forums, you are more educated and cultured than most Chinese. Your peers (us) have different standards.

 

Edit: Also, if you pick exclusively low-stroke characters like 小, 大, 山, 力 it implies that you doubt their ability to remember how to write their own name.

[Junzi]

Thank you for your explanations Lu, Duck and Hofmann. Now it makes much more sense to me. So it's actually more about elitism then, rather than about creativity or uniqueness.

 

On a side note to Lu, in regards to the Western studies I was referring to, here are some links for your further reading if you are able to read German. It's articles about the studies rather than the studies themselves, but I guess they should capture the essence. 

 

http://blog.beliebte-vornamen.de/2009/01/werden-jungen-mit-seltenen-namen-alle-verbrecher/

^ This article is about an American study titled "First Names and Crime: Does Unpopularity Spell Trouble?" by David E. Kalist and Daniel Y. Lee of Shippensburg University. Their research found that unpopular names are correlated to a higher crime rate in comparison to common names, and also to an environment that has unfavourable effects in this respect, e.g. a lower social status of their parents and family, constricted and uncomfortable living conditions, and often being raised by single parents. I'm not sure if this is the study you're referring to Lu, but at least in this article it does not mention anything about race. But then again, I did not read the study itself and the link to it in the article seems to be broken/expired. 

 

http://www.zeit.de/2014/01/namen-sympathie

^ This article from Die Zeit, a leading German newspaper, cites various German studies about prejudices for certain names (e.g from University of Oldenburg and Humbold University Berlin), which pretty much all come to the conclusion that bearers of traditional German names are perceived to be smarter, higher performing, friendlier and more attractive - and therefore get preferential treatment over bearers of uncommon, foreign and fashion names. Due to the strong bias against the name Kevin, which became super popular especially in the economically weaker Eastern Germany when "Home Alone" came out in 1990, there's even the coined term of "kevinism" for bias against such names. The article also states that "men and women with uncommon names have it evidently harder than the majority. They end up more often in mental asylums and prisons". 

 

Anyway, to not derail the tread here too much, basically the cause and effect is the same as with the Chinese bias - certain names are an indicator of a lower social status, while others are percieved to be elite. But it is interesting that the traditionally common names are the preferred ones in the West, while in China you'd try to look for some sophisticated characters not used by lower class "commoners". 

[Angelina]

Racism.

Arguments coming after I read the studies.

[Junzi]

Yes Angelina, racism unfortunately also plays into it as an underlying factor and goes hand in hand with elitism. And I think we can agree that bias based on race or perceived class is as disgusting as it is unfair. Anyway, that's a huge topic on itself I think and I only provided those links because Lu was curious.

[Lu]

I thought about this some more, and if you equate Melinda = Meilin/Meiling, which is somewhat similar but not the same, you might as well try a different approach altogether. Pick the German names you like and once you've done so, come back here and people here can help you come up with a similar Chinese name that looks and sounds nice. For example, I know a girl named Emily/Enjie (don't know the characters I'm afraid), not the same but similar. If you take this approach, you have a lot more freedom in both directions.

[Demonic_Duck]

You are right that elitism plays a certain part in it, but if you chalk it all down to that I'd say you're oversimplifying it. It's seen as more about being cultured. A name might be all high-frequency characters, but have a deep cultural significance, and so most Chinese people would consider it a good name. Equally, using very uncommon characters could be seen as pretentious, weird or vulgar, not to mention causing problems with computer input! Even if you want to assume this is because Chinese people are classist, you still don't want to expose your future offspring to prejudice if you can help it. So don't choose a name that's “俗” just to prove a point.

The other thing is that most names from Germanic languages simply don't transliterate well into Chinese. Your kid doesn't need a transliteration, s/he needs a proper Chinese name. Maybe s/he'll choose simply not to use it and stick with using her German name with Chinese friends - and there's nothing wrong with that. But there really doesn't have to be a close phonetic resemblance between the two names.

[oceancalligraphy]

 

For an Aimée:

愛美 - love & beauty

 

That's not what it means. It means to be vain or wishing to be beautiful.

 

 

 

Pick the German names you like and once you've done so, come back here and people here can help you come up with a similar Chinese name that looks and sounds nice. 

 

I second this.

[Lu]

To follow up: I asked 李娜 how she felt about her name. It's very common, she said, but she was already 麻木 about that. Growing up she already knew of some eight other 李娜s. She had considered changing her name to something much less common at some point, but didn't end up doing so. She said she didn't like her name that much, it just has a nice sound but 娜 doesn't really have much meaning.

 

I asked why her parents had picked this name. She said in the seventies (I don't know her exact age now that I think of it, but she's from somewhere around 1980) there was a sense of China going into the world, opening up, with Russia becoming - if not popular exactly at least a bit more so, and 李娜 was a name with a sound that fit that atmosphere. More international? I suggested. That was not exactly it, but something along that sense.

 

(To make it fair I told her about my name, which is long and usually misspelled. I too had considered changing it but didn't, but I'm happy that my Chinese name is short, somewhat common and rarely misspelled.)

[Hofmann]

Well it does mean something if you pronounce it nuó.

[Angelina]

I asked why her parents had picked this name. She said in the seventies (I don't know her exact age now that I think of it, but she's from somewhere around 1980) there was a sense of China going into the world, opening up, with Russia becoming - if not popular exactly at least a bit more so, and 李娜 was a name with a sound that fit that atmosphere. More international? I suggested. That was not exactly it, but something along that sense.

Well, 李娜 does sound Slavic

[Angelina]

Downvoted #74 by mistake

[Pegasus]

Out of curiousity, what name did you end up choosing?