Help - no Chinese birth certificate

[nimbus22]

I immigrated to the USA from China in 1963.  I'm now a naturalized US citizen

 

I applied for a tourist VISA in NYC on 7/9/15.  I supplied my US passport, naturalization paper, invitation letter, airline tix and hotel reservation.

 

The person processing the application needed a Chinese birth certificate or a Chinese passport.  I've never had or seen either of those things since I was only 5 years old in 1963.  Both my parents are now deceased, so there is little possibility I could come up with anything extra to support my application.  As it currently stands they said it needs to review by "Mainland" China.

 

I would imagine this is a fairly common problem

 

Some questions.

 

- Are there any agents in the USA that I could contact which might be able to get me a Chinese birth certificate by visiting the appropriate government office in China?

- Any reports on this forum about how others have handled this problem?

- Any general advice on how to proceed?

 

 

[889]

The problem is that by birth you are a PRC citizen. China will not give a visa to someone it knows or suspects is a PRC citizen. Chinese citizens must enter China on Chinese travel documents, not foreign passports with Chinese visas.

The further problem is that China, unlike the U.S., does not recognise dual citizenship. A Chinese citizen who becomes a naturalised American is supposed to formally renounce Chinese citizenship at an embassy or consulate. Presumably you have not yet done this and thus remain a PRC citizen, ineligible for a Chinese visa.

The final problem is that without a Chinese passport or birth certificate, you don't quite exist yet so far as China is concerned, or to be more precise, your identity has not yet been determined. Your U.S. passport and naturalisation papers don't really establish your Chinese identity so far as China is concerned. For that you need Chinese papers.

[nimbus22]

I hear what you are saying but renouncing China citizenship is not stated anywhere. 

 

The agent at the NYC consulate seemed to indicate that if I had my Chinese birth certificate she would have granted the visa.

 

My wife who accompanied me was in the same situation and applying for a visa.  She was born in Hong Kong, naturalized in the USA, DID NOT renounce her Chinese citizenship.  She had her Hong Kong birth certificate and was granted a visa in a matter of minutes.

[gaogaozhan]

You can still visit Hong Kong or Macao.

You don't even need to apply any visa.

Once there, you can re-apply your Chinese visa through local agents.

Probably easier?

[889]

Of course he can visit Macau or HK, but they'll still want papers for a Mainland visa if his U.S. passport shows birth in Mainland China in order to establish he's no longer a PRC citizen.

[Shelley]

If the point is to prove he is no longer a PRC citizen and China does not recognise dual nationality then doesn't the fact he has a US passport and is US naturalised citizen mean he can not be a PRC citizen

 

I know nothing about visas and such (so feel free to tell me to butt out) but it seems logical and common sense, if he is one then he can't be the other.

[gaogaozhan]

I know this is tough. You can't really have you cake and eat it too.

My home country does not recognise dual nationality either.

[889]

The point is that becoming a U.S. citizen does not automatically terminate your Chinese citizenship. China will not recognise that you hold U.S. citizenship until you renounce your Chinese citizenship. That's what the OP needs to do, but he first has to establish his Chinese identity to the consul's satisfaction.

Here, by the way is what one U.S. visa service says about getting a copy of a lost Chinese passport:

"原中国护照遗失的办理中国签证非常非常麻烦，所以请尽量找到。实在找不到的，也可以办。但由于要在原户口所在地核实，所以时间不定。一般要6-8周（最长的有半年）."

That is, it's a lot of trouble and could take up to six months.

http://visa.ywpw.com/forms/index_gb.html#passportlost

[roddy]

This comes up now and then - you might want to trawl these old topics to see if there are any clues - there's talk of agencies being helpful and getting notarised statements that you've lost the relevant documents, etc. Hell of a pain in the neck. 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/31842-visa-issue-for-us-naturalized-citizen-help/

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/22757-lost-chinese-passport-now-need-a-tourist-visa-in-us-passport/page-2

 

My guess is that locally there will be a lawyer or visa agent or notary serving the Chinese community who has dealt with this before. Good luck with your Kafkasque nightmare....

 

“The point is that becoming a U.S. citizen does not automatically terminate your Chinese citizenship.”

I refer my learned colleague to Article 9 of the 国籍法 - that's exactly what it does. Although there's a complication in that it can't happen if you're a minor, but how long after stopping being a minor do you have to take advantage of the possibility of Chinese citizenship? Something tells me this is not regularly tested in the courts. 

[nimbus22]

I've been to Hong Kong and Macua on past vacations.  I really don't want to fly into Hong Kong (from Boston) hoping I can find someone that can help me get a visa.  My wife and I were invited to attend an event in Shanghai, hence the need for a Chinese Visa.

 

Some more info.  I was born in a rural village in China.  It's not uncommon for births to be handled by mid-wives.  So there is a strong possibility I never had a traditional birth certificate.  Never had a Chinese passport since I was too young when I came to the USA.  I can't really give or provide copies to the NYC consulate something that never existed. 

 

At this point, my adult sons and wife all have Chinese visas.  I'm 58 years old and have never been to China since I left over 50 years ago.  Common sense says I'm not some activist hoping to get into China and am trying to do something against the government.

 

If I was born in the USA and provided the same info, they would have rubber stamped my visa application.  With my application I provided death certificates for my parents and a picture of the headstone on their graves.  There is a Chinese inscription with their names and the village they were from.  My english name on the US passport is the same as my Chinese name. So it would be fairly easy for the Chinese government to confirm my identity.

 

At the end of the application process, they had me fill out a statement on "why" I can't provide the needed info.  I'm hoping someone reviewing it will be reasonable and grant me a visa.

[gato]

I suspect that the requirement for you to submit your Chinese passport or birth certificate is for the Chinese government to check your Chinese files and make sure you are not a troublemaker or political dissident. Otherwise, it may be hard for them to match your U.S. passport with your Chinese identity.

You do automatically your Chinese citizenship once the Chinese government learns of your having a U.S. Passport. I was previously a Chinese citizen, too. The problem now is that they don't yet know who you are in their database, so they do not know whose Chinese citizenship to cancel.

You are supposed to go to local health department of where you were born to get a replacement birth certificate.

[nimbus22]

I came to the USA when I was 5 and have never been back.  So pretty unlikely I could be a troublemaker.

 

If I was in China or had connections in China, it would seem pretty easy to get some type of birth document.  However I'm in the USA and am not fluent in Chinese, so it makes it hard.  I would gladly pay an agency to obtain this for me.

 

Also some chance I did not have a traditional birth certificate, since I was born in a poor village in the 1950's

[nimbus22]

Just to follow up so it will help others in my situation.

 

I called a number of visa services but no one would handle my application since I did not have a Chinese birth ceritificate or passport.  I never have had a Chinese passport.  They all recommended that I show up in person and provide as much info as I can.

 

I had naturilization papers, USA passport, death certificates for my parents, an invitation letter, plane tix, hotel reservations.

 

I applied with my wife who also needed a visa.  The female consulate agent seemed to have encountered this before and did not just dismiss my application.  Although I was a bit persitent and wasn't going to just be sent home to look for non-existent documents. 

 

Eventually, she handed me a statement form (all in Chinese) to restate my situation, date I immigrated to the USA, names and contact info for living siblings.  Write I have no Chinese passport, and I have never been back to China.  There seemed to other forms available for non-routine applications.  None of these are available on the web.

 

She said "Mainland" needs to review it.  My impression is that no one wants to get in trouble and make any decision that is outside the norm.

 

With so much information it should be fairly trivial for them to verify my birth/identity in China.

 

I applied on 7/9/15 in NYC and got a call today 7/16/15 that my visa has been approved and will be available in another week.

 

Frustrating part is no one ever answers the phone or responds to emails.  There was no given timeframe for when a decision would be reached.  You have to take a big leap of faith that someone is working on it.

 

Good luck to others in the future.

[edelweis]

thank you for the update and congratulations on getting your visa!

[roddy]

That's excellent news, and very useful info for folk in the same situation in the future. Thanks for feedback!