T and C

[AlexBlackman]

I can easily hear the difference between C and T, but my tutor says I'm pronouncing them the same.

 

What exactly is the difference?

I know C has the tip of the tongue on the lower teeth, and T the upper teeth.

Both are aspirated, but C seems to be a lot stronger.

Both are unvoiced.

[Yorin]

A couple of questions to help with the following explanations:

 

- Is your first language english?

- Did your tutor tell you which of the two you didn't pronounce correctly? Or are both of them wrong?

- Can you give a couple of words which according to your tutor you didn't pronounce correctly as an example?

[Hofmann]

Are you talking to your tutor in person?

 

/tʰ/ is t in Pinyin
/t͡sʰ/ is c in Pinyin
 
Both are alveolar. Your tongue should start in the same place.
/t͡sʰ/ has a fricative after the initial plosive. After your tongue makes an opening at your alveolar ridge, it should stay close enough to make a fricative before going wherever to make a vowel.

[AlexBlackman]

Ah! thank you.

[Johnny20270]

I just try pronounce c as the ts in cats but more forceful

 

not sure if this is accurate enough. Hofmann what do you think? Good enough? I don't understand linguistic terminology 

[Sophia Sunhongrui]

Jonny, I think your way is completely OK. I believe everyone can understand you, right?

[Demonic_Duck]

Location: Sydney.

 

I suspect what's happening is that you're pronouncing your [t] too much like [c], rather than vice-versa. I think this is a problem that many Australian English speakers and some British English speakers are liable to have. Basically, some people pronounce a very slight sound after an English [t] in many words. I'd guess this is likely to come out in Chinese words like “天”, where there is an sound after the [t]. Make sure you're saying them "cleanly", i.e. without any residual "s" sound afterwards.

[Johnny20270]

Jonny, I think your way is completely OK. I believe everyone can understand you, right? 

 

 

Its my most frequent mispronunciation (I think) and the one my teacher corrects me on most often. Hence I make a effort on this one. I frequently say 参加 cānjiā with a t rather than a c but seem to get 点菜 diǎncài right, odd!

 

Mind you, when I hear other students significantly mispronouncing pinyin (let alone tones), yet teachers never correct them, I wonder how strict they are with me and how accurate I actually am. I do make a conscience effort with Chinese pronunciation as my strong Irish accent doesn't help matters at all 

[AlexBlackman]

@Demonic Duck,  Right on both accounts... I'm both British and Australian.  I'll check my T's with a Chinese person, maybe I've been too preoccupied mastering this exotic Ts sound to get the basics down. 

[Demonic_Duck]

A recording might help our "diagnosis" too.

[Hofmann]

I don't think British or Australian /t/ has any more after it than American /t/, i.e. no more than is naturally there since you have to move your tongue away from the plosive. Does your tutor say t sounds more like c or the other way?

 

And a recording is best anyway.

[davoosh]

Some dialects of British English definitely have more affrication of the /t/ than is usual (notably Liverpool, Welsh and Irish dialects), but that's probably incidental.

[AlexBlackman]

Okay, here's my attempt at pronouncing distinct pairs.

从 同.mp3

擦 他.mp3

菜 太.mp3

错(4) 脱（1）.mp3

[Demonic_Duck]

Interesting. Your 擦/他 and 错/脱 are fine. Your 菜/太 are correctly distinguished by the initials, but you swallow the sound in 菜 too much, so it almost sounds like [cà], which sounds a little rude (due to sounding similar to [cào]), so watch out for that!

 

The problem you're talking about is very pronounced in the 同/从 pair, though. They sound almost identical, with both sounding like 从.

 

Maybe try pronouncing the beginning of 同 like the beginning of 脱. That might cause your lips to be too rounded for the [t], or even affect the quality of the vowel somewhat, but it would eliminate the ambiguity and could at least work as a "stop-gap" solution.

[AlexBlackman]

Ah, thank you, I'll practice it the next time I speak to my tutor.