是confusion

[Pedroski]

I have this sentence:

 

您是不是写作起来非常的辛苦。I would translate this 'Do you find creative writing difficult?' I hope this is not too far off the mark. The first part of his answer is:

 

非常辛苦，

 

是 is a problematic little word for me. Chinese has:

 

noun 是 noun constructions, 是不是  and 是。。。。。的 contructions and maybe more. So I look at this simple sentence and think, how is it built? I don't think it is a 是。。。的 construction. I could remove 非常的。 Also, such 是。。的 constructions seem to me to be just a case of using the adjective in place of the noun which is implied, although it is said they are used for emphasis.

 

Maybe 是不是 has degraded to a simple question marker, like 吗, and my sentence is really: 您写作起来非常的辛苦吗？or something along those lines.

 

Or maybe I can write:

 

您是写作起来非常的辛苦？ In this case, it is a noun 是 noun construction, which basically says:

 

您是辛苦。 Except, no one would say that. They might say 您辛苦了。= You work hard. or 您是辛苦的。You are hard working.

 

In Chinese, people do not write 你是很好。they say 你很好。Someone Chinese said, this is because all adjectives in Chinese are also verbs, which made me laugh, and makes a mockery of the definitions of word classes.

 

Does my sentence really just say 您是辛苦？，rest being added detail?

 

 

 

[skylee]

There is no "creative" in the Chinese version.

非常的 = 非常地

[imron]

非常的 = 非常地

The original source got it right.

[roddy]

You've ignored '起来', the context, and all the good advice we've given you over the last year. 

[curry]

Regarding your question of 是不是, you are right that it serves as a yes-or-no question marker. However, I would not say it is "degraded" to this function, since it is the function of 是不是 in the Chinese language.

[陳德聰]

Pedroski:

 

You reduced the sentence incorrectly. You should have arrived at "[[寫作起來][辛苦]]". This is a clause on its own, and you can use 是不是 to question the veracity of the clause in regards to whatever comes before it.

 

你是不是 [ assertion ].

Is it the case for you that [ assertion ].

 

The topic goes on the outside and everything to the right of 是 falls under its scope. So no, you're not saying "你是辛苦?", you're saying "你是寫作(起來)辛苦?"

[xiaokaka]

OP said: "Someone Chinese said, this is because all adjectives in Chinese are also verbs, which made me laugh, and makes a mockery of the definitions of word classes."

The so called “adjectives” in Chinese are actually usually classified as stative verbs since they have the meaning of “be” built into them.

[Pedroski]

Thanks for the useful answers.

 

I like the idea that adjectives are stative verbs, but why then use 2 words for one thing? Grammar is hard enough without adding categories which turn out to not be separate categories at all. Will you say all adjectives are stative verbs? We could then throw away the word adjective. (Ironic: adjective means 'throw to (word)'). That  will get complicated when you consider the 'adjectivising‘ effect of 的， it can turn almost anything into an adjective! Better tread carefully there!

 

"你是寫作(起來)辛苦?"

 

So it is not a bla是bla的 kind of sentence. Didn't think so.

 

Is it a noun是noun kind? Is 辛苦 a noun here, a noun whose meaning as a single entity is unclear? Or do you think '写作辛苦‘ is a noun? Or perhaps this is just a kind of ritual use of 是 which on analysis is completely unnecessary? Can I write:

 

您写作起来辛苦（了吗）？

[陳德聰]

Why would you add 了?

The nuance is different between 你是不是寫作起來辛苦 and 你寫作起來辛苦嗎 but they are asking essentially the same thing. Don't tell me you missed the memo about V不V and 嗎 yes-or-no questions...

[Pedroski]

No, no, I picked up on that: 会不会， 可不可以, 去不去， 等等, I see that a lot。I'm just wondering in what category this sentence fits, and if it is noun1是noun2, what exactly is noun2? 写作， probably not 起来， 辛苦， or a combination thereof？ Like I said, I don't think anyone would say ‘您是辛苦。‘

and '您是写作。‘ doesn't seem too eloquent. How many combinations are there with a limited selection of words？

 

I know of 。。。是。。。。的， 名词是名词， are there other categories?? Then Chinese leaves bits out, and I am left wondering what should be there but is not!

 

I always add 了， seems  the thing to do! Sorry 'bout that!

[curry]

是不是 is used to ask yes-or-no questions and can be put in the beginning, middle, or end of a sentence. If it comes at the end of a sentence, whatever comes before it is being questioned. If it comes at the beginning or middle of a sentence, then whatever comes after it is being questioned. For example:

是不是你明年去中國旅行？ - Is it you who is traveling to China next year?

你是不是要去超市買東西？ - Are you going to go to the supermarket to buy things?

她感冒了，是不是？ - She has caught a cold, yes/right?

 

I hope this may clear some things up on the usage of 是不是 to ask questions.

(Taken from Integrated Chinese Level 1 Part 2)

[Pedroski]

What I think is this: [动词][不动词] is actually [动词] 或者 [不动词] shortened.

 

是不是你明年去中國旅行？ is actually short for: 是或者不是你明年去中國旅行？ which again short for 是你明年去中國旅行 或者 不是你明年去中國旅行？

 

Obviously, the former is easier to say.

 

If this be true, then we have the sentence: 是你明年去中國旅行? In this case, 是 seems to be acting like a logical operator TRUE or FALSE

 

[TRUE or FALSE]你明年去中國旅行?

 

As far as I know, Chinese does not use the reversal of subject and verb to make questions, such that you can't ask ' 去你中国？‘ for 'Are you going to China?'  If this is correct, then you cannot read '是你‘ in the above as 'are you', however tempting that might be. All of which indicates some other role for 是 here.

[curry]

Firstly, I am not too certain that 或者 is commonly used to ask "or" questions in Chinese, but rather 還是 should be used instead to form questions. This is what I have heard from Chinese teachers, but maybe a native speaker can back this information up.

 

Additionally, in the sentence 是不是你明年去中國旅行？ it is not the placement of 是 before the subject that creates the question "Is it you who is going to China next year?" but rather, the placement of the phrase 是不是. Forgive me if I have misinterpreted you.

是 can be put before the subject in many instances that I find best translate to "it is..." Some examples are "是我明天去超市" (it is I who is going to go to the supermarket tomorrow [and not somebody else]), "是甚麼叫你生氣？" (What is it that makes you angry?), or to borrow the title of a famous pop song, "是甚麼讓我遇見這樣的你？"

"是你明年去中國旅行？" can also be interpreted as a question based on the context, tone of voice, etc., but the full form for the question using 是不是 at the beginning of the sentence should be "是不是你去中國旅行？"

 

I apologize if I have made any mistakes in this post, and I'll try to check with a teacher tomorrow morning, but I think that 是不是 in your sentence "你是不是寫作起來非常地辛苦？" serves to mark the sentence as a yes-or-no question.

[imron]

是不是你明年去中國旅行？is actually short for: 是或者不是你明年去中國旅行？ which again short for 是你明年去中國旅行 或者 不是你明年去中國旅行？

No wonder you have trouble with Chinese if you make something so simple into something so convoluted and also wrong (see above about 或者 vs 还是).

[陳德聰]

What's bizarre is that you are right about 是 being a logical operator, but the way you got there is painful.

 

Quoting myself:

you can use 是不是 to question the veracity of the clause

 

Think of it this way. The words towards the beginning of the sentence generally have scope on some subsequent words in the sentence. Take your example:

 

您是不是写作起来非常的辛苦?

 

[ 您 [                                          ...                                       ]] <- everything in the sentence after 您 falls within its scope, i.e. the whole thing is about 您

       [ 是不是 [                            ...                                       ]] <- everything in the sentence after 是不是 falls within its scope, i.e. the rest of the sentence will either 是 or 不是 (be true or false, yes or no)

                     [ [  写作 [ 起来 ] ]  ...                                        ]  <- the only thing directly dominated by 写作 is 起来, but everything else following is under the scope of the unit [写作起来]

                     [                          [    [ 非常地 ]         辛苦       ] ]  <- and then you finally get to the 辛苦 which is just the description of 写作起来.

 

The 是不是 can go at any of the major constituent boundaries:

 

是不是您写作起来非常的辛苦？

您是不是写作起来非常的辛苦？

您写作起来是不是非常的辛苦？

您写作起来非常的辛苦，是不是？

 

So once again: this is not noun是noun. It is a variant of [assertion = true or false].