Pedroski Posted August 19, 2015 at 10:28 AM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 10:28 AM I have this sentence: 这些发明都要归功于他在实践中留心观察，细心发现。 I think 留心，细心 and 用心 all have much the same meaning of 'careful, attentive'. I understand 留心观察 as 'carefully observe', but I don't like 细心发现 as 'carefully discover'. How can you 'carefully discover'? That makes no sense in English. How should I interpret 细心 here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted August 19, 2015 at 01:12 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 01:12 PM That makes no sense in English. It's a good thing the original sentence wasn't in English then! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted August 19, 2015 at 04:07 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 04:07 PM Why can't you translate 留心觀察 as "carefully observe" and 細心發現 as "attentively discover"? Or if you don't like that, try "meticulously". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 19, 2015 at 09:38 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 09:38 PM The problem with "attentively discover" is it doesn't feel right to discover something attentively. Discover means find, locate, come across, come upon, stumble on, chance on, light on, bring to light, uncover, unearth, turn up, track down not something you can do meticulously, carefully etc. it just happens. Columbus discovered America, he did put some work into figuring out what direction to go in but he actually thought he was going to reach India but he bumped into America accidentally. if you invent something on the other hand, then yes you can say with attentive, careful and meticulous work he invented the radio. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted August 19, 2015 at 10:06 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 10:06 PM If you word it like that it sounds weird, but think about it like this - paying attention to small details can allow someone to discover things that maybe others (who didn't pay attention) would miss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 19, 2015 at 11:03 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 11:03 PM Yes, I agree that it make sense that way, but it is the kind of thing you say in hindsight. His careful attention to detail allowed him to discover a cure for the common cold. I wouldn't say I am going to attentively discover a cure for the common cold, or carefully discover a new land. You might say I am going to work meticulously and I hope to discover a new type of antibiotic. It just doesn't scan properly or make sense otherwise. The misuse of invent and discover is one of those things that really bugs me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedroski Posted August 19, 2015 at 11:04 PM Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 at 11:04 PM It's not an easy one this. No one English would write 'I meticulously/carefully/seriously dicovered X-rays.' The reason being, I assume, is that a discovery is a kind of 'eureka moment', and meticulous implies a long term approach. We 'suddenly' discover. Chinese often leaves out half of what it wants to say, because Chinese people know what is meant (and to drive me crazy). I think, just as Shelley above used "with attentive, careful and meticulous work" as the instrument, in English at least, it needs an instrumentative clause with 'by' or 'through'. I would not go for "He carefully invented the radio." 这些发明都要归功于他在实践中留心观察，细心发现。 These inventions are all due to his practice of careful observation, and by/through careful observation making discoveries. But in Chinese it sounds fine?? In Chinese you can 'attentively discover'?? 2000 years later, 鲁班 is causing me problems! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted August 20, 2015 at 02:24 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 at 02:24 AM No one English would write 'I meticulously/carefully/seriously dicovered X-rays.' It's a good thing no-one is saying that then. As has been mentioned to you many times before, don't try to understand Chinese by doing a literal (and more often than not incorrect) translation into English and then wondering why it doesn't make sense. In Chinese you can 'attentively discover'?? Discover through attention to detail is probably a better way to think of it. "细心发现" has some 90,000 results in Google, so while not incredibly common, it's not exactly unused either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted August 20, 2015 at 05:24 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 at 05:24 AM Keep in mind that 發現 is not necessarily the same "aha!" or "eureka!" type moment in Chinese as the word "discover" is. Discover seems very passive in English, like you just accidentally stumble across something. But it can be used actively in Chinese. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest123 Posted August 20, 2015 at 06:40 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 at 06:40 AM The misuse of invent and discover is one of those things that really bugs me. Well, I guess that it is not the misuse that bugs you, but applying english meaning to chinese words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 20, 2015 at 09:28 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 at 09:28 AM I meant the misuse in English, which if you are translating can cause problems if you don't' pick the right one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwq Posted August 21, 2015 at 04:00 PM Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 at 04:00 PM In the context of inventing a solution to a particular problem, when you study the problem you'll make many small discoveries about it. Only by not ignoring those many discoveries and meticulously study them, will you come upon the big Eureka that is the solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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