Why is the word 很 sometimes not translated?

[Milkybar_Kid]

Hello,

 

I was looking at example sentences in Pleco for the term “穩健” and came across this Chinese sentence:

 

他這個人很穩健。

 

The English translation was then stated as

 

He's a steady person.

 

Does anyone know why the 很 wasn't translated? Surely it should state, "He's a very steady person."

 

I can vaguely remember coming across this situation before where the "很" wasn't translated as "very". Is this an omission on the translator's part? Or is there another reason?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Video Vocabulary]

Apparently translator didn't expect someone would notice it ))

[lechuan]

很 is mainly a filler word used to connect nouns and adjectives. Since there's no direct equivalent in English, it's often translated 'very'. If you actually want to say 'very', use 非常.

See http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Simple_%22noun_%2B_adjective%22_sentences

[Video Vocabulary]

@lechuan

Well, can't he just say 他這個人穩健 without 很 to connect noun and adjective ?

[Hofmann]

If you said "very" too much in English, people will start ignoring it, but expecting it in front of adjectives. BTW, these are stative verbs. Chinese Grammar Wiki calls them adjectives as a shortcut for English speakers.

[stapler]

@ video vocabulary - yes you can say it without the 很. But when writing their language Chinese people consider it an "error" not to include 很. Skipping 很 is a spoken convention. Remember that there is still a much larger gap between the written and spoken language in Chinese than in English.

[edelweis]

doesn't skipping the 很 imply some sort of comparison or contrasting?

[roddy]

Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar, 4.3. Abridged by me: 

Degree adverbs and complements (很好 / 好得很) removes an implication of comparison. In particular 很 doesn't really mean 'very' unless emphasized. 

 

And if it doesn't really mean 'very', the translator may well opt to remove it. 

 

" But when writing their language Chinese people consider it an "error" not to include 很. Skipping 很 is a spoken convention."

Sorry, but I suspect someone somewhere has made that up. Where'd you hear it?

[davoosh]

I think the linguistic term for this is "semantic bleaching" where a word is used to the point that it loses any actual significance and becomes (or nearly becomes) a grammatical marker. I.e. 很 doesn't really carry the same force as English 'very' anymore, it mostly serves a grammatical purpose.

[Susu]

Chinese can sound quite short and abrupt, so padding words like 很 can serve to emphasis the fact something is being said, rather than literally mean Very.  For example, you might translate both 我很冷啊! and 我冷! as "I'm cold!", but few will say 我冷 in real life.

 

Add to that that translation isn't a science, it's more the art of getting the same message/tone/feeling across 

[roddy]

It sounds quite short and abrupt to the Chinese, who grow up speaking it and for 99% of the time never hear anything else?

[Susu]

Yep, I mean that the fewest number of words to say something isn't necessarily the best way to put across meaning; more words/syllables gives freedom to emphasise/stress 

[roddy]

Again, that sounds like something someone made up. 

[Susu]

Haha @roddy you are infuriating   but you got me digging and found another good explanation beside @lechuan's link:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_adjectives

Unlike English, subjects and predicate adjectives in a Chinese sentence are not linked by copula but by degree adverbs, such as 很 hěn "very," 好 hǎo "highly," 真 zhēn "really," and 非常 fēicháng "extraordinarily, extremely." For example, the following sentences express increasing degrees of "beauty":

• 她tā 很hěn 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is beautiful.
• 她tā 好hǎo 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is very beautiful.
• 她tā 真zhēn 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is really beautiful.
• 她tā 非常fēicháng 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is extraordinarily beautiful.

NB: 很 often functions as a dummy linking^{[citation needed]} adverb and does not carry the meaning of "very". For example, 她很漂亮 is often understood and translated as "She is beautiful".

 

I find it funny that even the wikipedia editor is demanding a citation for dummy linking.

[roddy]

Infuriating? Me? ^{citation needed}

 

I'm not sure if you're posting the Wiki content as  general extra info, or as you think it supports you. Regardless, what I disagree with is the idea that Chinese sounds short and abrupt - it might sound that way to those of us who learn it as a second language, but it sounds perfectly fine to the Chinese, who if anything delight in its concision. And who no doubt think English really does waffle on unnecessarily. And obviously both languages do chuck in other words or phrases to make things less direct at times (perhaps, it's just that, etc), but I don't think 很 is one of those. 

 

Nor do I think any language adds in words for 'freedom to emphasise / stress'. The word itself might emphasise (utter nonsense), but you don't put a word in there just so you can stress the word itself. An exception might be end-of-sentence 啊 type stuff. 

 

And to sum up, and if this particular hat doesn't fit you feel free to throw it angrily to the ground, someone with the right-sized head will be along soon enough: Deciding to learn Chinese without reference to grammar books and dictionaries and other... well, other references... is all very well. If you reckon you can do it with native speaker content and the often poor-quality free material churned out online, good luck to you. But when you come across a 'why is it like that' question, leave the question sitting there. Give it a 'just is' and move on. Don't try and come up with some explanation yourself, and don't put an unqualified native speaker on the spot and expect them to chance upon the right answer. 

[889]

A friend has played at a recital or in a ball game. You greet him afterward with, "Good job! You played well."

Without a "very" or something like it in there, your comment not only doesn't sound colloquial, it doesn't much come across as praise at all.

Ditto Chinese in some contexts.

[stapler]

@ roddy

 

If I can recall correctly, I once wrote something like 他羨慕甚麼 and was told by a native speaker that it needed a 很 or 非常 when writing it, but okay when speaking. So I've just gone with that since.

[L-F-J]

I'd like to see the citation for 很 as a dummy linking adverb as well. Is there any Chinese source explaining this function? What is the Chinese term for a dummy linking adverb?

 

 

Unlike English, subjects and predicate adjectives in a Chinese sentence are not linked by copula but by degree adverbs, such as 很 hěn "very," 好 hǎo "highly," 真 zhēn "really," and 非常 fēicháng "extraordinarily, extremely." For example, the following sentences express increasing degrees of "beauty":

• 她tā 很hěn 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is beautiful.
• 她tā 好hǎo 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is very beautiful.
• 她tā 真zhēn 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is really beautiful.
• 她tā 非常fēicháng 漂亮piàoliang。
  She is extraordinarily beautiful.

 

I don't buy it. 很 and 好 are equal in degree and mean "very". Chinese nouns and adjectives aren't linked by copulas but don't need to be linked by degree adverbs if one doesn't want to express a greater degree. If 很 is not translated here, it's just wrong.

 

The following examples don't need 很 to link the noun and adjective. 很 could be removed and it wouldn't be wrong. 很 adds the meaning of very in each of these examples.

 

 

 

Structure

Noun + 很 + Adjective

The noun in this structure is the subject of the sentence. Sometimes the 很 (hěn) in this structure is translated as "very", but often it is just a way to link a noun to an adjective.

Examples

In the following examples, 很 (hěn) is just a link, and the sentences could be translated as "(Noun) is (adjective)".

• 我 很 好 。Wǒ hěn hǎo.I'm good.
• 她 很 高 。Tā hěn gāo.She's tall.
• 他 很 高兴 。Tā hěn gāoxìng.He is happy.
• 你 很 好看 。Nǐ hěn hǎokàn.You are good-looking.
• 大象 很 大 。Dàxiàng hěn dà.The elephant is big.
• 猫 很 小 。Māo hěn xiǎo.The cat is small.
• 他 很 坏 。Tā hěn huài.He's bad.
• 我 家 的 狗 很 聪明 。Wǒ jiā de gǒu hěn cōngming.My family's dog is clever.
• 你 很 漂亮 。Nǐ hěn piàoliang.You are beautiful.
• 中文 很 难 。Zhōngwén hěn nán.Chinese is difficult.

 

[xiaokaka]

@L-F-J, Not in Chinese, but by a Chinese linguist:

When a morpheme has a double status as verb and adjective, two different markers help clear up the situation: le 了 (aspect particle) is used when the morpheme is a verb, and 很 (hěn: very) is used when it is an adjective. Compare the following examples:

(3) 他聋了

tā lóng le

HE DEAF LE

He went deaf.

(4) 他很聋

tā hěn lóng

HE VERY DEAF

He is deaf.

(from Xu Dan 徐丹 "Introduction to Chinese Syntax")

[Guest realmayo]

I don't buy it. 很 and 好 are equal in degree and mean "very". Chinese nouns and adjectives aren't linked by copulas but don't need to be linked by degree adverbs if one doesn't want to express a greater degree. If 很 is not translated here, it's just wrong.

 

I think you are wrong.

 

Po and Rimmington’s ‘Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar’ (Routledge) has a good explanation for why ‘我好’ is not a well-formed answer to ‘你好嗎?’.... Having the predicative adjective unmarked implies a contrast, ‘I’m good (but not him!)’. A degree adverb like 很 is needed to get a neutral reading. P and R further remark that ‘in fact the degree adverb很 hen3 ‘very’, unless it is emphasized, does not really mean ‘very’, and its integration into an adjectival predicative is more often than not to counteract an implication of contrast.’ (p.60)

(from http://linguistics.s...type-of-copula)

 

The Allset Learning website has an explanation here: http://resources.all...tive"_sentences

And points out that: for 很+psychological verbs, the 很 is intensifying: e.g. 喜欢, 了解, 希望, 讨厌, 失望, 伤心, 满意, 想念.

But not for 很+adjectives/stative-verbs.