can 在 be omitted in this case?

[metlx]

"他在20岁的时候写了这本书。" - "When he was 20 years old he wrote this book."

 

What does 在 mean in this sentence above?

 

Would "他20岁的时候写了这本书。" mean the same thing?

 

[Shelley]

I may have gotten this completely wrong without context and lack of knowledge, but could it mean? " He took 20 years to write this book"  

 

  20岁的时

 

20 years of time

 

The 在 can mean "an action in progress"

 

Now I am interested in the correct answer because I am confused.

 

Or maybe yours is correct and if so maybe its "He, at (在) the age of 20, wrote this book."

 

Sorry if I have only served to muddy the waters, but your question got me thinking.

 

 

 

[curry]

"He took twenty years to write this book" would be 他花了20年寫這本書。

在 is a preposition meaning at, in, or on, so 他在20歲的時候寫了這本書 means "He wrote this book at the time when he was 20 years old."

You can omit the 在 from the sentence and still keep the same meaning while being grammatically correct, but maybe someone with a greater knowledge of grammar can provide a second opinion.

[Shelley]

I didn't think it was correct but its good to know the correct way to say it.

[Zeppa]

I am not an expert either, but I don't think you need the 在。 It reminded me of the beginning of the novel  活着 - there's a 现在 there, but no 在.

 

我比现在年经十岁的时候， 获得了一个游手好闲的职业，去乡间收集民间歌谣。

[BanZhiYun]

All Chinese words are separated in two categories, 实词 and 虚词. Basically, in this sentence the grammar construction is 在....的时候，it's the same as 在.....时／.....的时候/.....时 and 当.....的时候. You can use all of these to substitute 在.....的时候 and the meaning would be the same. In short, in the above sentence, you can omit 在 and the meaning wouldn't change.

I actually strongly recommend more in depth learning on the Chinese 虚词。在 here is exactly a 虚词 and this part is quite important, we as foreigners most of the time lack proper knowledge on that and often don't sound 地道 as a result.

[L-F-J]

 

I am not an expert either, but I don't think you need the 在。 It reminded me of the beginning of the novel  活着 - there's a 现在 there, but no 在.

 

我比现在年经十岁的时候， 获得了一个游手好闲的职业，去乡间收集民间歌谣。

 

Because it means "when I was ten years younger than I am now" and not "when I was ten years old". Obviously, a ten year-old wouldn't be assigned to go to the countryside to collect folksongs. 

 

Typo: 年经 ＝ 年轻

[Demonic_Duck]

BanZhiYun nailed it.

 

@Shelley: When it's a measure word, “岁” is almost only ever used to count a person's age in years (as opposed to years in the abstract, e.g. years taken to write a book). This isn't an absolute rule, but you can count on it being true the vast majority of the time. Also, “时候” refers to a point in time rather than a period of time. A period of time is “时间”.

 

When I was twenty

我（在）20岁的时候

 

Twenty years of time in the abstract

20年（的时间）

[Zeppa]

L-F-J, sorry about the typo. But I realize it means 'ten years ago', but I still think the structure is comparable.

[Demonic_Duck]

I think “在我比现在年经十岁的时候” would be grammatically acceptable, but doesn't sound so natural. It sounds more natural to omit it.

[BanZhiYun]

@Zeppa, it's not only comparable, it's basically the same. The thing is you made no analysis on why you think it was omitted there. Basically what you did was give an example and let us make the conclusion, but still it was a good example!

@Demon_Duck, when using 在 in this type of construction it sounds more natural to put it after the 主语，so if you wanted to add it, it would have to be 我在....的时候. Hope this helps. If it was 当...的时候, you can put the 主语 inside. This is why the 虚词 is quite important, that's exactly what this topic teaches about, the place and difference in usage of 介词，连词，副词，助词等.

[Demonic_Duck]

Hmm. So is “在我比现在年轻十岁的时候” incorrect, or just not as natural-sounding as “我在比现在年轻十岁的时候”? It seems to me that from a logical (but not necessarily linguistically correct) point of view, it would be “在我比现在年轻十岁的时候”, because it's 我 (the 主语/subject) that is 比现在年轻十岁.

 

That's also why I'd prefer cutting out “在” altogether. It both sounds natural and makes the logical connection clear.

[Zeppa]

Thanks very much, BanZhiYun. But I should really not opine here, as I couldn't give the explanation.

[Shelley]

So I turn the page of my textbook and this is what I find

 

[metlx]

Thank you everyone.

haha @Shelley. May I ask what textbook you are using?

[Shelley]

I am using the first version of New Practical Chinese Reader. If you are interested, have a look at my blog about my NPCR learning schedule.

[BanZhiYun]

@Demonic_Duck Here “在”(and more precisely, 在....的时候 in general) is a 介词，and besides that, 介词短语 is usually used as a 壮语. Usually, the Chinese sentence's order is: （定）[的］主 ＋ （壮）［地］动［得］（补）＋（定）［的］宾. According to this, 我在比现在年轻十岁的时候 would be more grammatically correct. Hope this helps.

[rtf]

1. 在...的时候 frames an adverbial (of time, in this case),like 我在北京的时候，认识了很多人 - 'when I was in Beijing, I met a lot of people' (literally 'at/during the time when I was in Beijing...')

 

2. 在 can be omitted at the beginning of a sentence,like in （在）我们国家天气很热

 

 

Good luck!