Fresh passport. Fresh start?

[laowaijay]

Dear all, 

 

What you are about to read may anger you. Please keep in mind I made some mistakes as a kid and am looking to create a better future for myself. 

 

I came to Shanghai when I was 19 and a half. I worked on student visas until leaving three months ago at 24. I left because I was tired of working illegally.

 

I am currently outside the country working towards a BA via correspondence. However this will only be done in 3 years minimum. In the meantime I want to go back to China and and work on a proper Z visa(after a year outside the country). I am open to photoshopping a degree in the meantime and fibbing about working experience outside of the country. However, I am worried about history on student visas. Does a new passport(and passport number) effectively wipe the slate clean with regards to visas? How closely will the PSB check?

 

I apologise if this post offends you. I am merely describing my thought processes.

 

 

[vellocet]

They've got your history on the computer going back all the way.  I just registered at the police station and I got to see photos of what I looked like years ago.  Damn, I was handsome.

[Simon_CH]

Frankly, you're quite simply late to the party. Leaving legalities and ethics aside I highly doubt you'll get a Z-visa that way anymore. Even reputable companies with established operations in China report having trouble getting work visas for their (real, experienced, educated) employees nowadays. From what I hear and see here the days of bumming it in China on a dodgy visa are already over for most people. 

 

Especially in your situation they clearly have your record in their system, how could you possibly have obtained not only a degree but also 2 year work experience after your last degree in the three months you were not in China? Forget China for the time being, try again in about 5 years time when you have a degree and work experience, because these core requirements will not change. 

[roddy]

It's not a game I'd play. Visa form asks if you've had visas previously, and while you've changed your passport number you haven't changed your name. I'd rather go back in on a legit student visa for as few hours as possible and do private teaching on the side. Although I think that's a bad idea nowadays as well.

[laowaijay]

Thank you all for the replies. Would a safer option be to simply stay out of the country for 2 years now to make the 2 years of work experience plausible? I could always claim to have a distance degree, partly earned in my home country and partly earned while I was living in China.

[m000gle]

I couldn't agree more with the advice provided so far, but here's my two cents:

1. A new passport is no way a "fresh start", at least not in terms of what you're looking for. It's hardly rocket science for the authorities to maintain a visa and immigration record for an individual independent of a single passport number as the unique identifier.
   
   In my case, as someone who has successfully obtained Chinese visas and residence permits on multiple occasions, and in different visa categories, I actually find the existence of such an immigration and visa record reassuring.  I see it almost like having a well established credit rating, insofar as demonstrated good behaviour is generally indicative of a low-risk individual and might reduce the odds of a future request being arbitrarily or inexplicably rejected.  Perhaps I'm naieve, but for those of us who have done our upmost to follow the rules, this may make our future visa applications (in particular multiple entry and ten year visas) a much less stressful experience.
    
2. While fudging the requirements, or even embellishing education/employment history while remaining truthful, might have worked in decades past, it is becoming much more difficult and is certainly ill advised.
   
   "Photoshopping" documents is just asking for trouble.
    
3. Given that one of the reasons you originally left was that you "[were] tired of working illegally", why would you want to return to that same precarious status?
   
   As far as I can tell, a valid visa document (in this case Z-visa) obtained fraudulently is just as illegal, and just as problematic for you, as performing activities not permitted in the visa category (such as your previous teaching on an X-visa).
    
4. Staying outside the country for two years and, thus, making the work experience "plausible" doesn't do anything to make the experience genuine or legitimate, if your primary occupation remains a student in the interim.  In this question, you are essentially asking: Will remaining outside China for two years make it less likely that my, still falsified, application details will be caught?
   
   Sure, perhaps; but I doubt anyone here would recommend this course of action for exactly the reasons stated above.

What I would recommend is actually following the visa rules, even if they can be a pain:

• Finish your B.A., gain some work experience and then apply for a job in China and work visa; or
• If you really want to get back to China ASAP, look for exchanges or take a gap year as a B.A. student; or, if at all possible
• Perhaps apply for a CSC scholarship to return to China for study prior to worrying about work.

There are plenty of good options, if you're so willing; but I worry that taking the quick and easy route, instead of following the spirit and letter of the rules, will simply lead to problems down the road.

[Huina]

It's not a good idea to lie. I just got hired by a big company and they required not only my original college diploma, but signed, original letters of recommendation from my previous employers in the United States. I don't know if that's just because my company is really big and bureaucratic, but it's a thing. It's best to spend time home getting legitimate experience before going back to China. 

[laowaijay]

m000gle,

 

There is no doubt your post lays out the best possible course of action. And I certainly wouldn't blame you if you felt frustrated with individuals such as myself who have skirted the law while you continue to abide by those same laws. 

 

It's just that I feel a certain frustration, however unjustifiable, with regards to my situation. I never taught English in China. Without going into too many details, I provided a service to companies which, especially in China, is quite rare. I have never and would never lie about my qualifications to any employer. My previous company knew full well I didn't have a degree but hired me anyway. My frustration lies with the fact that I have two and a half years of genuine work experience which, to the Chinese government, means absolutely nothing.  I know, I know. There's no use complaining. This is how things are. 

 

Unfortunately, I am too old to apply for a government-sponsored bachelor's degree(I will be 25 in September, just missing the requirements). I am, however, looking into options in Taiwan. 

 

Thank you all for the replies. 

[roddy]

If you can get a proper tax-paying company to fight your corner and can document your skills some other way - company references, professional qualifications, I don't know - maybe it can be done. Particularly outside of the major cities. If you tell us more about what you do maybe someone can come up with some ideas...

[BobLanza]

OP to answer your question, if you can show a bachelors degree (a copy is fine) and two years of related experience. You'll qualify for a working permit

 

Example: English teacher

 

Bachelors degree 2001-2004

Worked at a school 2004-2006

a TEFL maybe?

 

These 3 will get you a working permit,     as for the work experience they never verify that, your employer may though.

 

If you're that desperate for Asia, get your degree, go teach in thailand or taiwan for 2 years, then go to China

[歐博思]

Sky's the limit but remember even with a different pass. # that an Excel VLOOKUP could gitcha'.