他心里很<难过>

[rtf]

各位好：

 

 

Am I right in assuming that the above is an elliptic sentence,the full one being  在他的心里很难过 - 'In his heart it`s very hard' = 'He is grieved/He has a hard time'?  So, it looks like 难过 is an adverb here. Am I right?

 

 

 

谢谢。

[davoosh]

I don't think this is a case of ellipsis. 难过 here is an adjective meaning 'sad'.  "我/你/他心裏..." is a common expression used to describe feelings. Using 在 here sounds odd, although a native speaker can confirm.

[L-F-J]

As stated, 心里 refers to one's mental state and introduces a particular emotion. 他心里很难过 can just be translated as "he's very sad". It's hardly distinguishable from 他很难过.

 

It would be redundant in English and Chinese to say "he's very sad at heart" or "在他的心里他很难过".

 

Also, 在他的心里 changes the meaning to "in his heart" rather than just serving to introduce an emotional state as 心里 does. So, you'd have to add another 他 as above (in his heart, he is very sad) but that would be redundant and unnatural in either language, as would 他在心里很难过. The natural way to say it would just be 他心里很难过. 

 

But without another 他 in the case above, the 很难过 in 在他的心里很难过 seems to be describing something that should follow in the sentence, such as 感情 or 情绪. It sounds incomplete and like an English thought pattern. It would be more natural in Chinese to say, for example, 很难过的情绪涌上了他的心头. But that's also kind of literary and poetic sounding. To say "he's very sad" in everyday speech, just stick with 他心里很难过.

 

Hope that makes sense!

[rtf]

Thanks very much L-F-J, that makes a lot of sense!

 

I suspected that people don`t say 在他的心里很难过, and that  it changes the meaning from emotional  to physical. I`m just trying to make sure that  他心里 is an adverb of place (Where? 'At his heart'), so literally it`s 'At his heart it`s sad/hard,etc',so I put 在他的心里 to make it look more like an adverb of place. Because in some manuals they say that sentences like that have 'double subjects',like:

'He (subj #1) - at heart (subj #1) - sad (predicate)'. What`s your take on this?

 

Thanks again.

[Altair]

 

 

Am I right in assuming that the above is an elliptic sentence,the full one being  在他的心里很难过 - 'In his heart it`s very hard' = 'He is grieved/He has a hard time'?

 

I think the issue might be that the OP is not familiar with the topic-comment structure of Mandarin.  The phrase 他心里很难过 looks from the perspective of English grammar as if it might have two subjects or that 心里 is a location phrase with an elided preposition.  In Mandarin, it is unnecessary to think like that.  Both 他 and 心里 are eligible to be topics and there is no need to find a missing subject or missing preposition.

[L-F-J]

It's also worth mentioning to look out for the tones on 心里. The 里 becomes a neutral tone. So, it's not really indicating a location, like the 在...里 construct. 心里 is more like a word here meaning heart or mind, hence why 在 doesn't connect to it.

 

While it's natural in Chinese to use this word to introduce an emotional state, it's redundant in English and can be reduced to whatever emotion is mentioned (e.g. He's very sad.) with no loss in meaning.

[rtf]

Thanks,everyone for your help.

 

One last question for L-F-J, as a native speaker: where do you,guys, make a pause in 他心里很难过?

Is it 他  心里很难过 or 他心里  很难过?

 

[L-F-J]

I don't detect a pause, but often emphasis can be placed on 难过 by slightly drawing it out with a sort of sad tone of voice – like how we say in English; "I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I just feel saad... you know?" The rest of the sentences (他心里很) flows more rapidly until it hits 难过.

 

I don't know if that makes much sense in writing, but hopefully you get what I'm saying!    

 

(BTW, I'm not a native speaker, but started learning about 15 years ago, live in China, and translate. So at least I can say I've been at it a bit.)

[Messidor]

I agree with L-F-J. 心里 is usually a single word and 在 is verbose in your example.

But there are exceptions, 在他心里，还住着另一个人, here [在(他心里)] is a prepositional phrase modifying the verb 住.

As with the parsing, I guess it's proper to parse as such

他心里很难过

|--|-------------| 主谓

    |----|--------| 状心

          |--|-----| 状心

or put it another way: the primary sentence can be 他很难过 (he is very sad), the derivative sentence is 他心里很难过 (he is very sad deep down), because 心里 (deep down) is usually adverbial .

 

里 belongs to a special type of noun, that is, locational noun（方位名词）, and it's usually combined with another morpheme, such as 头 / 面, to form 里头 / 里面. Since 心里 is frequently used, I guess the two morpheme developed a close relation so they start to resemble locational nouns like 里头 / 里面。

[rtf]

谢谢大家回复。Messidor,special thanks to you,我知道了. I would very much like to have your personal take on my next question, as there`re a number of theories on the problem,and I`d like to know what you think about it,if you don`t mind. Well,I can`t ask it in this thread,so I`ll create a new one called ‘象鼻子很长’.