Okay, so you've learned Chinese. What's next?

[DachZanz]

I suspect I'm like many of you - learning Chinese was my choice, made after I moved to China and gradually developed interest.  I got more and more serious with my studies, and I'm now capable of passing my HSK 5 practice tests after 2 years.  My plan is to be ready to take on HSK 6 in another year.

 

To be honest, I started learning it as an act of self-discipline.  Good a reason as any right?  

 

So what's your experience?  What did you do after learning the language?  What doors opened?  Did you get/ do you have an interesting job that you like? Do you get to do special projects?

 

I apologize if this has been talked over a dozen times, but I can't find any threads about it after a few searches - only results for "why do you want to learn Chinese," which is a different topic.

[xuefang]

Chinese was the only language I chose to study, other languages were compulsory or I just followed the crowd. Through the years I grew more and more interested in Chinese, just like you. Then during my bachelor degree in China I realized what I wanted to do with my Chinese skills and with my life, to teach it!

 

Now I'm a second year master's degree student in teaching Chinese and have been teaching 1on1 for one year now. Learning Chinese have totally opened a new world for me and now a career as well. 

[vellocet]

The only reason anyone should learn Chinese is "to have a better life".  I learn it because I live here and that's what people speak.  This "get a better job" nonsense is just that, nonsense.  The time spent learning Chinese would have been much better invested learning a better, more valuable skill.  I thought all the "I'm going to move to China, learn Chinese and find a job" crowd were washed out of Beijing and Shanghai a couple of years ago.

[Xiao Kui]

I feel like learning Chinese is just the beginning. After I got to an advanced level I was drawn deeper into the literature, the history, and the culture. My relationships with Chinese friends also deepened.  I also feel a stronger tie to China and I want to live here and experience more of it rather than use my skills to get a better job back home. Just my experience....

[Demonic_Duck]

I don't entirely agree with vellocet. Chinese is a marketable skill, it's just not particularly marketable if you have no other skills that complement it. Also, most people who start learning for purely extrinsic reasons don't get very far before giving it up or putting it on the back burner, and beginner proficiency in any language has little-to-no value in the workplace.

I also disagree with the premise of this thread, which is that there can be a point in your life where you can definitively claim to have "learned Chinese". I'd say what's next after learning Chinese is generally learning more Chinese.

[ZhangKaiRong]

HSK 6 is hardly the end of the road - passing the exam does not mean that you're fully proficient in the language, not even near there...

 

I agree with vellocet, and also agree with Demonic_Duck: from cost-benefit perspective, learning Chinese is potentially not the best investment for most professional career prospects, due to two main problems:

 

1) If you want to work in China, your skills matter the most. You can be as fluent as Da Shan, you can know the history&culture from inside out, but without a unique skill set/good professional experience a local hire is always a safer option than you, a foreigner, who is seen as someone who socialised in another culture (regardless of how much you know about China and the Chinese).

 

2) If you want to work outside China exploiting your Chinese skills, then you will most likely face tremendous competition from native speakers living there and eligible for working in that country. Most job posts requiring "fluent Chinese" are taken by overseas Chinese, simply because they are native speakers and you are not. My favorite example comes from my former classmate, a good Scottish guy with excellent Chinese. He passed HSK6, and unlike most character-memorizing, book cramping foreign heroes passing HSK6 he actually speaks the language very well. He holds a dual degree in chemistry and business management, and he started to learn Chinese out of interest. Anyway, he was obviously happy when he saw a job advertisement from a Europe-based chemical company looking for two Chinese-speaking employees with some chemical sector experience. At that time he had 2 years of experience at a UK-based company. When he participated the assessment center, he was the only local and the other seven or eight participants were all overseas Chinese, also working in the industry... Guess who got any of the positions. Just a hint: not that guy. This is just one example, but the situation is quite general.

 

To be a little bit positive: I am working in financial advisory, and to a certain degree, I could incorporate Chinese to my professional career, and participated in consulting projects related to Chinese clients, which I would have probably missed without my Chinese knowledge and experience in China. But it's still like peanuts.

 

I usually give these two don'ts and one do to people approaching me whether they should learn Chinese or not:

 

- don't believe the hype about the importance of China and Chinese language

- don't expect any future gains from it

- do it for fun as a hobby

[Flickserve]

For me, it is a hobby.

It allows me more opportunity for social interaction.

If a work opportunity comes up because of it, then that's good. But it is not an assumption. It's actually pretty unlikely.

I am doing another postgraduate degree to fulfil another long standing interest. Totally unrelated to Chinese. Whether they come together to be useful, I don't know.

For me, it is good to have another language skill. As one person said to me, it will help delay Alzheimer's ...

[DachZanz]

Thank you to everyone who's taken the time to reply to my thread (:

 

I do learn Chinese as a hobby - I do love it, and find that the more time I spend doing it, the closer I feel to the country, and it's people, and my Chinese friends.  I enjoy having conversations with fruit vendors and street food sellers.  I want to create a more positive image for foreigners in China. Also, like I said in the OP, it's a good act of self-discipline.

 

I appreciate the advice about the "golden job that lies at the end of HSK6 advice" too.  I think I'm deluding myself with that... I would love to use my Chinese proficiency in my professional life in some way, but I'm not sure what that is for now.  My degree and my non-Chinese passion is live theatre.  I've done some theatrical work in China (mostly working with kids in English), and I hope to combine the two in some way, some day.  

[EricJMa]

For me it's not a hobby.

 

It's a lifestyle.

 

Its a means for living in China without depending on a translator for every situation I run into, big or small. It's a way to make friends with the locals. 

As an expat, it's an alternative choice of being illiterate and ignorant to the local culture in which I live.

 

If I treat it as a just a hobby I would never have gotten past the tones and just knowing a few phrases.

 

I am able to communicate and express my ideas and feelings in simple sentences with a growing vocabulary. It's a very gratifying and gives me a sense of freedom that I would not have otherwise experienced living here in China.

[somethingfunny]

As some people have mentioned, don't hold HSK 6 on too high a pedestal.  Although it's the highest level attainable, it falls well short of the highest level in other tests of foreign languages such as the IELTS and it's European equivalents.  I was spent some time studying for HSK6 because I thought I needed it to get admitted to a graduate programme in China.  When I found out my HSK 5 was enough I told my teacher and they told me to stop learning as studying for HSK6 only improves my HSK6 test taking abilities rather my Chinese.

 

I took (and passed) HSK 5 about 2 years ago.  Yesterday I went to a lecture on modern Chinese cultural thought (this is the best translation I could do) for undergraduates and understood almost none of it.  So, this:

 

 

 

I'd say what's next after learning Chinese is generally learning more Chinese. 

 

 

(In my defence, the Professor spent a long time quoting 红楼梦 and I spoke to a (local) doctoral student afterwards who admitted he was a bit lost as well.)

[Shelley]

I also disagree with the premise of this thread, which is that there can be a point in your life where you can definitively claim to have "learned Chinese". I'd say what's next after learning Chinese is generally learning more Chinese.

 

I agree with this, it was my first thought when I read the title of this topic. One reason I started learning Chinese was the never ending aspect, it would be something I could spend the rest of my life learning and enjoying.

 

As also said on its own Chinese is not enough to get you a fulfilling career. You need some more strings in your bow to get the best for yourself.

[xuefang]

I think the main point from OP wasn't that you can "have learned the language", but what do you do with your skills when you get to a reasonable level. I think we can all agree that language learning is a life long process, you can always learn something new, and that's part of the fascination for many.

[DachZanz]

xuefang, thank you for clarifying that for me.  I didn't mean to imply that there is an end-point, as languages don't "end."  The topic is meant to discuss what options might open to you after you've reached a certain level.  I am also interested in hearing personal experiences of what doors (professionally or otherwise) have opened for you because of your language ability.  (:

[somethingfunny]

But what is a reasonable level?

 

And how long is a piece of string?

 

As Zhangkairong and others before have mentioned, most positions requiring Chinese language skills are going to go to native speakers.  I remember reading in one of the university threads about a foreign (western) student studying for a Masters in translation in China and it just being impossible to compete with all the Chinese students who were obviously fluent in Chinese and effectively fluent in English.

 

The only thing I can think of where it would be useful (apart from if you're backing it up with a specific skill, as people have mentioned) is if you're applying for a job which Chinese people are not permitted to apply for.  These jobs do exist and I'll let you figure out what they are.

[Flickserve]

Interests come and go. Doing Chinese is similar to other interests. You might become intensely interested in it or it may fall by the wayside.

What about those people who do other hobbies or learn other things? Model aeroplanes, gardening, singing etc. jobs in those skills go to professionals. Perhaps a small proportion do go on to work in their hobbies.

A reasonable level is where you yourself are satisfied. Should I stop learning because there are many other people much better than me at it? Difficult question but then we'd never get anywhere as people if we did stop. And if you did stop, what else would you do? Stopping because you lose interest is ok. Stopping because everybody else is better than you, well...

Just to side track a little, many people spend their time and a lot of money on something called degrees. Then they do not work in an industry using those skills. It seems a similar scenario.

[Chris Two Times]

The only reason anyone should learn Chinese is "to have a better life".  I learn it because I live here and that's what people speak.  This "get a better job" nonsense is just that, nonsense.  The time spent learning Chinese would have been much better invested learning a better, more valuable skill.  I thought all the "I'm going to move to China, learn Chinese and find a job" crowd were washed out of Beijing and Shanghai a couple of years ago.

 

Hear, hear! IMHO I definitely think studying Chinese for the intrinsic rewards beats studying it for any perceived extrinsic rewards every time.

 

I also agree that there is no "what's next?". For me, there is studying, working with the language, meeting a goal, and then more studying and more working with the language. It's just something I enjoy doing; from an early age what interested/fascinated me most (and continues to do so) is to learn foreign languages and travel to the countries where they are used by a majority of the people.

 

I am very grateful that I have had the chance to return to China (hence my username) and work with the people here and their language further. I simply dig it.

 

好好学习！

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Guest realmayo]

In my limited experience, companies can view Chinese as another string to your bow, for instance even if your language ability isn't good enough to actually do your job in Chinese, for lots Asian postings where Chinese isn't required, someone with 'okayish Chinese' would still have a big advantage over an otherwise similarly qualified candidate. The only three firms I've ever interviewed with all happened to have Asian desks, and even though I was never applying for roles there, all three were interested in my Chinese and talked about possibilities a few years down the line, even though I explained how limited my Chinese was.

[roddy]

Re: theatre - Chinese performers are doing a LOT of touring. There are opportunities there either to work with the performers as their translator or for the theatre's hosting them. Friend of mine has had work doing this in Edinburgh during the Festival. Similarly when foreign shows come to China, I guess. 

 

We might learn Chinese out of love, but there's no denying it opens doors. You end up not just being a sales guy, but the sales guy they send to open the new office in China; not just the procurement guy, but the procurement guy the suppliers prefer to work with as you literally speak their language. You're not just the language teacher, you're the language teacher who gets a free course in Shanghai, because there's a ton of money floating about and they've got to spend it somehow. At the very least, you're not just that guy, you're that guy that speaks Chinese and is therefore assumed to be some kind of genius. 'Course, the flip side is the constant 'oh, Mandarin or Cantonese?' and 'so, what's China like?' questions...

[ZhangKaiRong]

"You end up not just being a sales guy, but the sales guy they send to open the new office in China; not just the procurement guy, but the procurement guy the suppliers prefer to work with as you literally speak their language."

 

IMO this model worked until the middle of the last decade, you had a better chance to score this kind of position at a firm. Since then a lot of economic factors started to offset this. The number of Chinese households with middle income has been soaring, based on the new McKinsey forecast approximately 472m people in China will be in the middle income segment by 2020. Families can support their children to study abroad at good universities. After graduation, some of them go back to China, but there are others - mostly the ones with the better English/local language skills - who remain. So there is competition, and such procurement/sales/etc. transformation projects are going to Chinese native speakers, as they are in the job seeker pool. I don't say that being able to speak Chinese and present it on your CV or during the interview will not give you a slight advantage at any companies, as most people in HR see this as a good indicator for diligency/intelligence, but in the end you will probably not be doing any Chinese-related jobs. 

[StChris]

While I agree that those people who, on hearing that you can speak Chinese, say "Wow, you're gonna be rich!" are way off the mark, I still think that the mood on here is a little bit too pessimistic. I read the same McKinsey report that ZhangKaiRong referred to in The Economist a couple of weeks ago. Despite all the hype about the growth of the Chinese economy over the past 30 years, the Chinese middle-class (defined in the report as having sufficient income to purchase a decent car and white goods) still only numbered 47m (or roughly 5% of the population) in 2010. After you take away the 1% who were super-rich you're left with 94% of people who were (by Western standards anyway) poor. Despite that, we have already seen what a massive impact China has had on world economy, especially on the tourism, car, and luxury goods markets. 

 

As ZhangKaiRong pointed out, the middle-class is going to balloon to 472m by 2020 (and by looking at the graph in the report it looks as though the number of rich and super rich is going to quadruple as well). This means that there are going to be around half a billion extra people who are going to need more expensive cars, clothes, holidays, financial services etc. Under those circumstances I find it hard to believe that there won't be huge opportunities for those with a deep understanding of Chinese language and culture.

 

While it's true that this also means that there are going to be an increasing number of young Chinese who speak awesome English, I really don't think there will be so many as to squeeze out opportunities for Chinese-speaking foreigners. For one, the sheer number of Chinese studying abroad now may actually have a detrimental affect on their average level of English. I have a friend who studied at Leeds Uni in the 90's. He said there were only a handful of other Chinese students at the time, so he had no choice but to mix with his English classmates and make English friends, which of course had a beneficial affect on his English (although he admits he still had a Chinese girlfriend and a Chinese landlord). Today there are so many Chinese students studying abroad that it seems much harder for them to avoid getting stuck in a "Chinese bubble". I've seen this first hand as an English teacher in China. Most of my former IELTS students are now studying in America, Australia, Canada etc, but just about all of them seem to hang out with other Chinese people and have Chinese boyfriends/girlfriends. While I think most of us on here have personal experience of how difficult it is to integrate into a foreign society and make local friends while studying abroad, there's no doubt that it's an essential step in really becoming fluent in the language and understanding the culture. 

 

I don't doubt that there are already tens of thousands of amazingly clever bilingual Chinese people out there, and there will undoubtedly be many more in the future. But I don't think there's any need to despair and take the attitude of "we'll never be able to compete with the Chinese ubermensch, so just keep Chinese as a hobby and don't even think about using it in a professional capacity". That's part of the whole "China's going to take over the world!" narrative, which is just as false as the opposite extreme of "China's going to collapse/Chinese people aren't creative enough to ever be a major power".

 

I think the problem might be that people have unrealistic idea of what a HSK 6 pass signifies. Rather than treating it as the end of your Chinese studies, it should be thought of as a launchpad to study more specialized areas in Chinese (finance, engineering, science etc). A Chinese person with a degree from a Chinese university and an IELTS 6.5 pass wouldn't expect to just walk into a professional job where they had to use English at a professional level. They would probably have to study the same subject again at an English speaking university too. ZhangKaiRong's Scottish friend might have a HSK 6 pass and a chemistry degree, but can he actually speak and write about chemistry in Chinese as well as he can in English?