very polite expressions

[Raoul_85]

大家好！

 

 

I was wondering what really polite (and perhaps old fashioned) expressions 客气话  were in Mandarin (Northern dialects), used in very formal situations? Perhaps the people on this forum can help me make a list?

 

 

I thank everybody so much in advance,  你们辛苦了！

 

 

The reason behind my question is that we are hoping to visit China (around Hebei) in a couple of months, and we are expecting to also visit some elderly people who are highly respected in martial arts circles and I want to do my best to be as polite as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. with polite expressions I mean such things as when people ask: 您贵姓？ (nin gui xing?) the politest answer would be (as far as I learned)  免贵姓 (...) (mian gui xing ... ), or perhaps very polite ways to address an elder gentleman/woman etc.

 

 

p.s. #2    I will add the given expressions to this first post, in order that other people that wish to use the expressions don't have to scroll around the whole topic, they can just read this post.

 

 

 

 

The List of 客气话 so far:

 

1. When asked: 您贵姓？ , one answers:

1a: 免贵姓 (your name) or
1b: 小姓 (your name) 

 

2. 失陪 (used when leaving)

 

3. Use 您 and 请问 a lot

 

4. When trying to start a conversation with a unknown person:     怎么称呼您 ?
 

 

Etiquette:

 

At meals:

 

Don't start eating until the most senior person on the table starts eating. If they ask you to take the first bite, politely indicate to the most senior person on the table to eat first. Then probably you might take the first bite simultaneously. 

Pour tea for the table and you must start with the most senior person. The second most senior person is sitting next to him and that is the person to pour tea to next.

[skylee]

I do not think “免贵姓 (...) ” is polite. The phrase means there is no need to be so polite and show respect by using the word "貴“. It actually is a very odd phrase and kind of rude IMHO. In this part of the world (Hong Kong), I think the most polite and very old-fashioned way to reply is “小姓...”. By using the word "小“ one humbles oneself.

[stapler]

Who are you meeting? Former royalty? I think even the eldest Chinese would find these expressions pretty weird.

 

From personal experience the politest way to greet Chinese elders is to ask if they've eaten and if they're cold/tell them they should put on more clothes (even if its hot). Actions are often more important than words. If you wanna be real politeness hero: when you sit down to eat, grab the eldest persons bowl and fill it up for them.

 

(the polite response to "您贵姓?" should be "敝姓<last name>" - but again, does anyone actually use this outside of dramas about Imperial china?)

[889]

You mean like 失陪? That is, not something you'd really use, but it's nonetheless nice to know.

[roddy]

I've heard the 贵姓/免贵姓 combo used, in a workplace context. I'd have no problem using it with old folk. Or if I was at the

- note the policeman doesn't feel a need to be as polite back. There's a 敝姓 

. And

, not in response to a question. (I didn't have all those bookmarked, got over-excited playing with Youtube's subtitle search. It ain't great)

 

I honestly think this kind of language does get used - not much maybe, but it's still there. 

[imron]

It actually is a very odd phrase and kind of rude IMHO

 

 

the polite response to "您贵姓?" should be "敝姓<last name>"

 

免贵姓… is actually very common in the north of China, and you hear it all the time in an office environment when people are on phone calls.

[Flickserve]

Probably you will be introduced to people first and use the name that people use for introductions.

If you are starting to have a few words of conversation with a person who you haven't been introduced to, then you can try the following

怎么称呼您？

[somethingfunny]

If you want to be super polite just use 您 and put 请问 in front of everything.

 

Honestly though, if you're meeting people that you have some kind of relationship with, they're probably going to judge your level of politeness on how you act rather than what you say.  This is where stapler's advice comes in.  And honestly, it's the same as anywhere else in the world

 

• don't sit down until you're told to
• don't start eating until other people do (even if they tell you to start) 
• pour other people's drinks for them
• if a super old guy across the table from you wants to drink with you, stand up and clink his glass so its below his

etc.

 

We'd probably need more information on what kind of situation you're expecting to be in though to give you the best possible advice.  "Visiting elderly people" is a bit vague.

[Raoul_85]

thank you very much for all the responses so far!

 

 

@Imron, Indeed the people we're going to meet are from Northern China (Hebei province)
 

@skylee, thank you for your advice, I also made a note of it

 

Also to all the other members who contributed, thank you very very much for replying so far!!!

 

 

All your contributions are now edited in the original post as well

[Flickserve]

Ahh, martial arts etiquette! Now we are getting somewhere. I assume these senior people are in the same martial arts clan that you are in.

There will be a specific etiquette to meeting seniors and it is similar to addressing members of a Chinese family.

Your teacher 师父

Your teacher's teacher 师公

Your teacher's senior 师伯

Your teacher's junior 师叔

Don't address them by name if you are under their lineage.

Etc

Shouyuliang.com

It's really important to observe the etiquette two posts above. Especially at meals. Don't start eating until the most senior person on the table starts eating. If they ask you to take the first bite, politely indicate to the most senior person on the table to eat first. TheN probably you might take the first bite simultaneously.

Pour tea for the table and you must start with the most senior person. The second most senior person is sitting next to him and that is the person to pour tea to next.

Hmm, loads of dining etiquette.

[Raoul_85]

dear brother Flickserve, that's great stuff!

 

keep 'em coming!!!!

[somethingfunny]

Yeah, I love Chinese dining etiquette.  I think it's because I hate 敬酒'ing and am essentially incapable of doing it, so I have to make up for it by showing strict adherence to all the finer details.  I think if you're not sure about anything just refuse a couple of times before you do actually do it.

 

A: "Please sit down!"

B: "No, no, I think I'll stand for a while."

A: "Please, sit! You must be tired."

B: "No, no, I'm fine.  Here, please, you sit!"

 

(*A and B then both continue standing until the boss arrives and tells everyone to stop being so weird and sit the hell down)

 

Sometimes I feel a bit awkward about jumping in and serving other people food.  It's totally OK, but I still worry I'm going to give them something they don't like.  In my experience, serving others mainly goes down with the big soup and what I tend to do is wait until someone else starts to motion to serve others and then quickly jump in and do it instead.  Or, if you want some soup it's good to stand up and serve yourself, then motion to the person next to you to see if they want some, then you're off round the table!

 

As for martial arts etiquette, I have no idea.  I'm assuming they probably won't be drinking much alcohol... or do we need to... maybe we should just anyway...

[Raoul_85]

^  hahaha I remember these kind of situations but when holding a door open for someone (not Chinese related though)... we'd be standing there going: no you first, no YOU.. I insist, please you first (and then u just stand there untill a third person finally wants to enter also through the same door)

[somethingfunny]

In China, your safest bet is, if no-one else is doing it then you shouldn't be doing it either.  And that goes for everything.  If no-one is sitting down, then neither should you be.  If everyone is standing up, then so should you be.  If everyone is drinking sprite, don't order a beer.

 

I mean, you can get away with doing all this stuff because they'll just chalk it up to you being a foreigner.  But wheres the fun in that?

[Flickserve]

Forgot to mention, things like

你叫什么名字？什么称呼您？ Use these with your training partner who is of similar rank to you. Strictly speaking, anybody who has been training longer than you is your 师兄 and you should address them as such in the training hall. Outside, at dinner, still call them 师兄 but other times, they might ask you to use their ordinary names.

Never, ever use 请你贵姓？什么称呼您？and such to the senior martial arts people. It quite likely will be considered as insulting. When a new person comes along, you have to keep your wits about you and watch how other people behave. If you want to know who the person is, then ask your 师兄 discreetly who and what status they are.

[imron]

Your teacher's teacher 师公

 

In Hebei, this will actually be 师爷 rather than 师公.

 

Also keep in mind that as a foreigner, you'll be given a lot of leeway for making cultural faux pas so don't sweat it if you make the occasional misstep.

 

That said, if you're going to be doing the dinner thing, probably the biggest thing to pay attention to is sitting down at the table.  There are good positions at the table and bad positions at the table and everyone will roughly know where they should be sitting in terms of seniority and politeness.  This is especially so in martial arts circles where there is generally a very clear order of seniority.  Despite this, there will be 5-10 minutes of jostling and cajoling as people make a show of politeness in sorting out the order.  You don't need to worry about this, just make sure you don't sit down at the table until you are asked/shown to a seat by one of your hosts.  If you just sit down randomly, you'll quite likely upset the seating order, so just stand around politely until someone tells you where to sit.

 

 

I'm assuming they probably won't be drinking much alcohol

 

Hah, if you're in Hebei, there will almost certainly be a lot of drinking going on (speaking from my own experience in Hebei martial arts circles).  Not only that, but this is probably the one place where it is possible to upset people if not handled correctly (once again speaking from my own experience in Hebei martial arts circles).  Northerners are big on drinking, and drinking customs are very different from those in the western world (and also south of China).

 

Generally speaking, if there is drinking going on, you will have a choice - either drink nothing or get totally drunk.  There is very little middle ground.  The reason for this is that people will toast you regularly, and it is a sign of respect for you to drink the same amount that they do.  If they drain their glass and you only drink half a glass, that might not go down so well - especially if you didn't agree before they drink that you were only going to drink half a glass.

 

Toasting also happens on an individual basis - e.g. person A will toast you, and then person B will toast you, and so on.  If you drained your glass for person A, and then don't drain your glass for person B, then person B may get upset.  As will person C, D, E and F - they will say, well, you drank a full glass for person A, how come you won't drink a full glass with me.  Likewise if you start the meal toasting everyone and draining your glass each time but then halfway through the meal you realise you've hit your limit and want to slow down, people will say 'well, you drank a full glass for me at the beginning of the meal, how come you won't do it again now'.  As the meal progresses and people get progressively more drunk, they will also get progressively more unreasonable in the leeway they will give you for refusing a drink or not drinking as much as they are.

 

This logic will persist across meals.  So for example, if you had dinner one night and got completely drunk from all the toasting and you decide the next night not to drink, or just to take it easy, people will be like 'well, you drank a full glass for me last night, how come you won't drink one for me now?'.  It will also persist across years.  If you are thinking of making these visits a regular occurrence be prepared for 'you drank with me last year, how come you won't drink with me this year‘.

 

Therefore, unless you want to be getting drunk a lot at meals, the only way handle it is to be clear from the beginning that you don't drink, and then stick to that, because once you start people may get offended if you stop.

 

If you decide to roll with it and go with the drinking, you'll need to be strategic about it.  Like I said, person A will toast you, then person B will toast you, then person C will toast you and so on.  What this means is that they will each have had one drink, and you will have had three.  If there are a group of you, they will probably try to toast the entire group, so your entire group will have had three drinks to their one.  Pay attention to this happening because you will not be able to keep up with that pace for the whole meal, so if someone toasts you, try to rope other people (not from your group) in to the toast.  Likewise, with the exception of the beginning and end toasts (which are usually group toasts) if they are toasting your full group try to get them to toast only one of you instead (e.g. toast me first, and then toast my friend).  Likewise, make sure you play the same game back - each of you individually toasting a group of Chinese at the table to make sure that they drinking at around the same rate as you (and yes, people will be keeping count - usually in the number of bottles consumed per person).

 

Also, try not to drink anything just by yourself.  If you want a sip and no-one is looking ready to toast you, take the initiative and get someone else involved too, this way you make sure that everyone is drinking at roughly the same pace.

 

If your group is large enough that you all get to sit at your own table, you'll be lucky enough to avoid most of that, and can drink at your own pace, with the exception of a few group toasts.

 

Finally, with regards to the actual toasting and clinking of glasses, when you clink glasses with someone, it is a sign of respect to clink the rim of your glass lower than the rim of their glass, and the lower you clink on their glass, the more respect you are showing.  Sometimes this will result in people going to clink glasses and then dipping their glasses all the way to the table as they each trying to clink the rim of their glass lower than the rim of the other person's glass.  As a foreigner, you'll get leeway for not knowing this custom so it doesn't matter if you don't do it, but you'll leave a good impression if you make an obvious attempt to clink your glass lower.

 

 

Strictly speaking, anybody who has been training longer than you is your 师兄 and you should address them as such in the training hall

 

Strictly speaking, this is not the case.  Firstly you need to know where you are in the family tree - or even if you are considered part of the family tree to begin with.

 

For the OP, a martial art's family tree is like a normal family tree, except substitute the teacher for the father.  People who have the same teacher as you will be your siblings.  People who are your teacher's 'siblings' will be your 'uncles/aunts'.  Your teacher's teacher is your grandparent and so on.  You'll also have cousins, and nephews and great uncles and great-grandparents and you'll want to address each person appropriately.

 

Note, it is also possible to be a student of someone, without officially being considered part of the family tree.  If you aren't part of the family tree yet e.g. you haven't formally 拜'ed someone in that family tree 为师, or it hasn't yet been agreed that you will be 拜'ing someone 为师, then avoid 师 prefixes when addressing people, otherwise it may be seen as you being presumptuous that you will be becoming a member of the family tree, even though no-one has agreed you will be yet.

 

Anyway, if you are considered part of the family tree then know your place in it.  I know people older than me, who have been training longer than me, who call me 师叔 or even 师爷 because of where I fit in the family tree.  If you go calling 师兄 to someone who is your 师叔 or 师爷, then he will likely take offense at that.  On the flipside, if you are someone's 师叔 or 师爷, then they will very likely insist that they are not your 师兄 if you call them that.

 

If in doubt about what to call someone, just ask: (我应该)怎么称呼你.  They'll know their relation to you (or be able to figure it out more easily than you can) and will tell you the appropriate term.

[somethingfunny]

Great post Imron.  Really makes me want to go for a big meal with a load of Chinese people.

 

Chinese people love it when a foreigner brings them up on all the sorts of things you said.  Basically, if you want to you can get everyone to drink loads because they won't want to lose face in front of the foreigner (or because of the foreigner).  Don't get me wrong though, you have to be willing to get absolutely slaughtered in the process.

[stapler]

Oh God I hate toasting and seating order. So embarrassing.

 

Anyway to add to imron's dinning etiquette (My experience is only from the south however so I don't know if it's different):

 

When it comes to seating arrangements the he eldest/host is the the person who faces the door (if it's a round table) and sometimes also indicates who will pay the bill (if you're eating out). Guests will be seated somewhere near that end of the table, depending on the age break down and importance of the guest. Get use to the fact that women and children are often pushed off the table if it's too small, as they're generally lower in the hierarchy. Besides being moved to a smaller table, being at the opposite side of the table from the host is the "lowest" position (which will be closest to the door).

 

As someone said, soup is often served first. This is when you should strike to fill it up for the most senior person.

 

DON'T start eating rice too early. It implies that you think the food is no good. Rice is just a filler to finish up after you've eaten all the main dishes. If you can't gauge it, only eat rice after others have started to eat it.

 

Don't say "干杯“ as a generic form of cheers as that means what it literally means - emptying a whole glass. You should be proactive in toasting. Make sure you toast the host/most senior first and work your way down the hierarchy. Always reciprocate people who cheers you at a later time. Wishing people health and money is generally the way to go. Hold your glass up to them and "来，祝你生意好" is one of my "go-to" phrases.

 

Also, even if you don't smoke, carry around cigarettes and offer them to all the males. There's a whole hierarchy of what brands are good/high quality. I don't know the hierarchy. But just having Western cigarettes seems okay (and admit that they are vastly inferior to Chinese ones (like all Chinese alcohol, food, etc)).

[somethingfunny]

I love all the outrageous questions and statements people make (although I admit they do become pretty annoying, especially when the people asking them don't realise how ignorant they are.)  Here are a few of my favourite dinner related ones:

 

吃的习惯我们中国菜吗？

Nope.  Four years in and I still get the s**ts everytime I have dinner.  What do you think?

 

我觉得你们外国人吃饭太可怜了，天天就是面包牛排。

Yep.  2015 in the west is some messed up version of the great leap forward where there is a total scarcity of all food except bread and steak.  How did all those restaurants get those Michelin stars!?

 

I don't think theres a big requirement to be handing out cigarettes if you don't smoke.  If you do smoke though, then it's a big opportunity to get in with the boys.  And yeah, don't mess around with any of the Chinese brands, too likely to buy something someone doesn't like.  Ironic really, seeing as they're all almost certainly fake.

 

I really like the alcohol rituals and its good to watch what people do.  They'll bring the bottle in fully packaged and open it in front of you so you know it hasn't been emptied and filled back up with fake stuff. (Which, incidentally, is why they make them so difficult to open).  And they'll usually fill your glass up, literally, to the brim.  This isn't just to get you drunk, but also a sign of generosity (you'd have to be pretty stingy to leave a big gap at the top).

 

But as Imron says, if you're not into drinking, make this very clear from the outset.  Then you just engage in all the rituals with tea.  Also, when you want to drink with the people at the head of the table, you absolutely don't want to do this across the table.  You'll need to walk around to where they are and drink in person with them.  Usually there will be a little session where everyone takes it in turn to do this.  It's quite fun as everyone is up and about and drinking/talking with different people.

 

My favourite line is when I'm drinking is: "话都在酒里" (1) I don't have to come up with a load of empty platitudes and (2) Chinese people love it.

[Raoul_85]

wow, everybody gave great tips and advice!!! Thank you so much for contributing to this topic so far, I really enjoy reading all your posts...

 

Since I just arrived home I will be editing the original post later this evening or this weekend hopefully, so please be patient